JTR illiterate ?

[Herlock Sholmes]

How could a Barrister have been illiterate.

[JeffHamm]

Literacy amongst the gentiles might have been good, who knows at what rate the mass of immigrants were literate? Assuming the killer was part of a random demographic, ie we have no idea if he was native or not, his literacy is impossible to guess at. But I doubt there's a genuine letter out there, so it's a bit moot.

Hi Al Bundy's Eyes,

Fair point. If JtR was from one of the immigrant populations, there could very well be a higher probability of him being illiterate. And of course, literacy rates being high doesn't mean 100%, so there is always a possibility he was not literate. But, without knowing who JtR was, if we consider him from a family with long established roots in England then odds are he was, and if we consider him from a recent immigrant family, then perhaps the odds are against it (though I don't know what the literacy rates were for the immigrant population, but I could imagine they were much lower, at least with regards to literacy in English).

- Jeff

[MrBarnett]

How reliable are statistics in respect of a transient population? The marriage registers of Christchurch Spitafields suggest there were hundreds of illiterate adults in the area.

Kelly, seemingly not, but her killer might well have been.

The Tomkins horse slaughtering family for instance:

Henry Tomkins was illiterate
His father William ditto
His brother Thomas ditto
Only the youngest brother, Robert, seems to have been able to write.

Pearly Poll and her husband both signed their marriage cert with an X.

Bridget Enright, ‘Biddy the Chiver’, born in Wales in 1874 to an Irish family - her father worked in an iron works - was also illiterate, as were her parents and most of her siblings.

In my own family, all four of my grandparents, born 1888 - 1901, were literate, but the majority of those who came before weren’t.

[MrBarnett]

Boss is American slang, not English. This shows that the author is either well traveled or has read American literature. The scripted handwriting of the Dear Boss letter is superb (and written by an educated hand). The letters were not composed by JTR, they're phony as a three dollar bill. Some at the time thought a reporter had written it. The kidney sent to Lusk could have come from a monkey or an ape ( they're primates just as we are ), JTR didn't send that either.

Boss, in the sense of employer/supervisor, was in use in London in the 1880s.

[Abby Normal]

I think it's unlikely that MJK was illiterate. While she asked Barnett to read to her, this does not necessarily mean that she herself could not read.

It's elsewhere stated that she corresponded with her family and received letters from her mother. And she was described as an accomplished scholar (which didn't have the academic meaning it has today, but still).

Literacy rates in late Victorian times were incredibly high, so statistically MJK and her assassin were overwhelmingly likely to be literate.

ok thanks kattrup. agree

[Kattrup]

i think the only person in the whole saga who were pretty sure was illiterate was mary kelly

I think it's unlikely that MJK was illiterate. While she asked Barnett to read to her, this does not necessarily mean that she herself could not read.

It's elsewhere stated that she corresponded with her family and received letters from her mother. And she was described as an accomplished scholar (which didn't have the academic meaning it has today, but still).

Literacy rates in late Victorian times were incredibly high, so statistically MJK and her assassin were overwhelmingly likely to be literate.

[Abby Normal]

either of the dear boss or from hell letters could have come from the killer. indeed both show signs that they did.
anyway im with jeff..i think the only person in the whole saga who were pretty sure was illiterate was mary kelly. and just look at the letter a low life thug like william bury could write. and the gsg was probably from the killer. no, its highly likely the ripper was literate.

[caz]

I'm pretty sure the sender of the kidney was putting on an act of being semi-literate in the accompanying letter. If it was a hoax it was probably by a medical student, but it could equally have been sent to Lusk by the killer. In either case I see it as an act of mischief done as a wind-up. It tells us very little about the sender - but semi-literate? I doubt it.

[Michael W Richards]

I guess its a matter of whether you think Jack was responsible for the death or deaths that are referenced in the letter. For example, I believe its very likely that the man that killed Kate Eddowes sent Lusk the note and package. Was he also Jack? Not sure. But I think that killer could be linked with that parcel.

So...maybe semi-literate?

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Literacy amongst the gentiles might have been good, who knows at what rate the mass of immigrants were literate? Assuming the killer was part of a random demographic, ie we have no idea if he was native or not, his literacy is impossible to guess at. But I doubt there's a genuine letter out there, so it's a bit moot.

[JeffHamm]

I believe literacy rates were remarkably high in all of England, the East End included. Don't forget, Polly Nichols wrote letters to her father, for example. The whole explosion of the "new press" (what we would call tabloids) at the time was due to the high rates of literacy amongst the working poor. Stories were being written to cater to their interests, which were not as high brow and antiseptic as the well educated upper class. More emotive and less dry fact based presentation of the day's stories emerged because the residence of areas like the East End were buying news papers. Often sharing them among many individuals, there was still a huge market to be had. Also, the GSG is described as in a "good school boy's hand", which would be the standard writing as taught in school. I've seen it argued that this is more likely to reflect someone who has done little writing outside of school, and therefore more, not less, likely to be someone who does not write a great deal (otherwise they would have diverged from their schooling and developed their own "style" - sadly, without a photograph of the writing, that is impossible to assess).

Anyway, even if JtR lived in the area, chances are he was literate.

- Jeff

[Christian]

While there would've been higher levels of illiteracy in the area than some, it seems a bit much to suggest the whole population of Whitechapel were illiterate. There were and still are schools, churches, shops and other various businesses within the area so it's impossible to say hardly anyone living or working there could read or write.

Given the killer's methodical way of incapacitating the victims and calculated decision making in the risks they took it seems logical that they would be able to competently read and write at the very least.

Agree with some of your points !! Even with menial trades you would require some literacy adding subtracting documenting etc !!

IF we assume JTR lived in the area- we can assume he would have been rather poor and also uneducated ?.Therefore ,if JTR was a Whitechapel resident , would he have been able to write any type of letters sent ? ( assuming if the Dear Boss letter is genuine) Also Dear Boss letter is neatly and elegantly scripted -perhaps beyond the capability of even a literate Whitechapel resident ?

Boss is American slang, not English. This shows that the author is either well traveled or has read American literature. The scripted handwriting of the Dear Boss letter is superb (and written by an educated hand). The letters were not composed by JTR, they're phony as a three dollar bill. Some at the time thought a reporter had written it. The kidney sent to Lusk could have come from a monkey or an ape ( they're primates just as we are ), JTR didn't send that either.

[Curious Cat]

While there would've been higher levels of illiteracy in the area than some, it seems a bit much to suggest the whole population of Whitechapel were illiterate. There were and still are schools, churches, shops and other various businesses within the area so it's impossible to say hardly anyone living or working there could read or write.

Given the killer's methodical way of incapacitating the victims and calculated decision making in the risks they took it seems logical that they would be able to competently read and write at the very least.

[DJA]

IF we assume JTR lived in the area- we can assume he would have been rather poor and also uneducated ?

At Mitre Square,when Jack opened up Eddowes

by cutting to the left of her navel,he then .......

removed her left kidney and adrenal gland

after removing her descending colon

then cut into her right inguinal lymph nodes

and performed a hysterectomy

cut off much of her nose and marked her maxillary sinuses

and cut into Xanthelasma of both eyes.

All done with no blood spray.

No doubt,if he had time,he would have taken her heart.

When things quieten down he leaves the apron piece and writing in a neat,may I say,educated hand using chalk on a difficult surface in Goulston Street.

That year's Goulstonian Lectures had been on the heart and madness ..... shades of things to come?

Poor and uneducated?

He obviously knew the neighborhood,starting from the vicinity of the London Hospital .....