Assignation of Victims to a single killer

[Roy Corduroy]

Good morning Simon,

Has anybody got any ideas on why Dr. Phillips had a private meeting at the House of Commons with the Under-Secretary for the Home Office on the evening of the Millers Court murder?

An idea?

He asked the doctor if he noticed anything at the crime scene to indicate James Kelly, the murderer escaped from his Home Office flagship prison/mental ward had been there.

Roy

[RivkahChaya]

As a later post states. Im in Norway..where I live, in the South /South East, in Celsius, it can reach 30 degrees in the summer and -30 degrees in the winter in the same place.

Hmmm. A difference of 108'F, I calculate. While choosing to live in a place where winters are regularly -22'F seems a little odd to me, the yearly swing doesn't give me pause. I have lived (relatively comfortably) through winters where the daytime temp got to -15'F and remained there for a while, and those same places regularly hit 100'F for a few days in the summer (albeit, this past summer, we had something like three straight weeks of 100+ afternoons, where it got up to 107, if memory serves).

My brother lives in California, where it never gets below 60'F, but they have hot summers, and very rainy springs, plus, earthquakes, and lots of fires.

They tell me there are places in the southern US where it stays around 70'F most of the year, except for summer spikes, and the dead of winter, when it drops to 50'F at night. But it's humid all the time.

I really wouldn't like either of those options, and I think I would hate Canadian winters, particularly when they never really have summers to make up for it, although if Mitt Romney gets elected, with his current strategy of bald-faced lying, I might reconsider Canada.

I'm not sure why big swings in temperature over the course of an entire year, are a hardship. Is it so hard to own two sets of clothes, and pack one away every March and October?

[Phil Carter]

Hello Monty,

Due to your derogatory opinions of Swanson, Marginalia and all things Kosminski, and due to the well advertised fact that Adam Wood and Keith Skinner have an article touching upon these subjects, I think the reasons are fairly obvious to all, no?

To you, with some sort of score to settle, perhaps. I have great respect for the two mentioned above, by the way.
Unless something very very different comes out in Rip Mag, my opinions on all things Kosminski etc will not change. Swanson's marginalian coments were, and are, NOT based on ascertained fact. (which is the subject connected to this thread.. which you introduced "ascertained fact".)
Neither are Anderson's. Neither are many of MacNagthen's.
Whenever I see those words in conjunction with anything police, re 1888, I see association. It was commented upon. Not a deliberate manoever to change the thread.. sorry dear thread cop...not guilty. Try policing someone else instead of virtually every time I post. Thank you, kindly.

Again, you take a topic which is NOT connected and drag it back to your agenda. To clarify, what you state above has NOTHING to do with my recent posts.

I see a connection and will comment on it if I deem it fit and appropriate.

Again, as above, you are referring to individual personal opinion of the case and not procedure. You seem to be confused.

Individual opinion by the men running the police force in 1888 who had their OWN versions of what you call police procedure. Swanson's "down by the seaside meet up" identification parade goes AGAINST known police procedure during the WM scenario in 1888. Anderson's "moral guilt" syndrome goes against known and accepted police procedure in 1888. Sir MM's opinion of who was more likely than Sooty to be JTR is what MANY regard in this genre as a pivotal piece of "evidence". That "evidence" is full of holes, seemingly poorly researched, poorly recalled and poorly presented. It is NOT an official document, as it was never accepted into the files officially and stamped as such, and isn't adressed to anyone either, which is against procedure. The putting in of UNOFFICIAL material into official police murder files is against procedure. Police procedure, that is.

So yes, I CAN, and DO compare individual police procedure with more general police procedure and point out through this the total lack of uniformity of carrying out procedure, on an individual basis. What makes it persuant, is that the men I quoted were heavily involved in the running of the police, and seeing that said procedure was carried out. Should they have then been shown to be lacking in the same levels of uniformity in following police procedure, whilst in charge of relaying such orders to underlings, then the point of non-conformity and lack of uniformity is relevant. It is for those reading this to decide for themselves if they are in agreement with that comparison or not. Not you alone.

No, Im fine then actually Dave. Its when people try to deliberately mislead I become abnormal. Though, to be honest, how can you tell the difference between normality and abnormality here? .

Hello Dave,

Try to? Wrong. I didn't, period, as you can clearly see, above.
Mislead? Wrong interpretation by Monty here too, as explained, above.
Normal?

That depends if any person, whoever, is trying, for unknown reasons, to settle a little score or not.

I'm not. But then again I don't write with clear moral represention of any group with a connection to the officials in this case, do I? Some seemingly do.

You already mentioned that in one of your posts, Dave. It almost seems "with an axe to grind-like" from some.


best wishes to you both

Phil

[Tom_Wescott]

However they did liaise on co-operate with each other Tom,

Police Orders of the period show that.

I'm not suggesting they did not, but I'm pointing out that there was a heavy amount of politics involved at all levels that apparently is not being taken into consideration by many of the posters on this thread, yourself included.

The only report of this nature that I am aware of was that of Charles Murdoch, Oct 30, from the Home Office, not from the Metropolitan Police. He was complaining about McWilliam's report on the Eddowes murder - which is strange because they didn't ask for the report until 3 weeks after the murder and the City police were not obligated to send one anyway... although McWilliam promptly sent one when asked.

Thank you for the additional details, Hunter. My point remains the same...the accusation was there, and it likely did not arise out of want for this single report, but had been festering for a while before it was made ink. You also make a good point about the Home Office's overall lack of interest in the murders, and knowledge of salient details. We also see this evinced in their notes on Swanson's Oct. 19th report. As for investigators like Reid and Abberline, they seemed primarily interested in the details of the cases they personally worked, and less so in the others. There was a surprising lack of communication all around, and I would imagine a certain amount of "let's keep this bit to ourselves to see if it doesn't lead us to the Ripper."

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

60-70 degrees? over the course of a year? that's odd? In about 38 of the 50 US states, it's normal to have a couple of days in midsummer that hit 100, and a few weeks in the winter when it gets below 20. We've had negative degree nights in the Midwest in winter, and still had 95+ the same summer.

Last Monday, it was 30 degrees in the morning, and I had to scrape ice off the car, but by 4pm Tuesday, it was 68. In some states, you can experience a 40 degree swing just by driving up a mountain. That T-shirt over thermals, and the flannel shirt tied around the waist, or the pant legs that unzip, aren't fashion statements.

Of course, that's Fahrenheit. If you are talking Celsius, where the heck are you?

Hello RivkahChaya,

As a later post states. Im in Norway..where I live, in the South /South East, in Celsius, it can reach 30 degrees in the summer and -30 degrees in the winter in the same place.

However, there are some places in inner, northern Norway that register -55 Celcius, and I believe the warmth record in that same area is 20+ degrees.

Normality is relative, no?

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

I fail to see how the City Police would have been able to investigate the case without cooperating with the Met.

[Hunter]

...I will remind everyone of the Met report that implicitly states that the City force is not sharing all their information.

The only report of this nature that I am aware of was that of Charles Murdoch, Oct 30, from the Home Office, not from the Metropolitan Police. He was complaining about McWilliam's report on the Eddowes murder - which is strange because they didn't ask for the report until 3 weeks after the murder and the City police were not obligated to send one anyway... although McWilliam promptly sent one when asked.

If there was a Metropolitan Police document that complained about the lack of City cooperation, I'd be glad to see it.

[RivkahChaya]

Normal?..I live in a country that can have temperature swings of over 60 and 70 degrees throughout the year. ANYBODY living here needs to be totally abnormal. Anyone CHOOSING to live here needs a brain scan.

60-70 degrees? over the course of a year? that's odd? In about 38 of the 50 US states, it's normal to have a couple of days in midsummer that hit 100, and a few weeks in the winter when it gets below 20. We've had negative degree nights in the Midwest in winter, and still had 95+ the same summer.

Last Monday, it was 30 degrees in the morning, and I had to scrape ice off the car, but by 4pm Tuesday, it was 68. In some states, you can experience a 40 degree swing just by driving up a mountain. That T-shirt over thermals, and the flannel shirt tied around the waist, or the pant legs that unzip, aren't fashion statements.

Of course, that's Fahrenheit. If you are talking Celsius, where the heck are you?

[Monty]

This is extraordinarily naive. Individual stations were competing for the capture of Jack, but nothing could compare to the competition between the Met and City. They were like two political parties, disagreeing on every salient point, and vying for the love of the press (the City won that one hands down, and that was no accident).

This isn't conspiracy talk here, but relatively obvious observations that we see not only in the Ripper case, but virtually all high profile cases.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

However they did liaise on co-operate with each other Tom,

Police Orders of the period show that.

Monty

[Monty]

Hello Monty,

Apart from the fact I look forward to EVERY new Rip Mag, you seem to know more than we others still waiting for it? So is there a particular reason I SHOULD be looking forward it.... this edition especially more than any other?

Due to your derogatory opinions of Swanson, Marginalia and all things Kosminski, and due to the well advertised fact that Adam Wood and Keith Skinner have an article touching upon these subjects, I think the reasons are fairly obvious to all, no?

Force co operation being factual is fine by me Monty, totally fine. But ascertained fact produced by and written by individual policemen and presented to us as quoted above.. nope.. that "ain't" happening either. Why? Because the quotes I wrote of simply aren't "ascertained fact"...

Again, you take a topic which is NOT connected and drag it back to your agenda. To clarify, what you state above has NOTHING to do with my recent posts.

So when writing, as you did, of procedure in policing, whether between forces or on an individual basis in the hierarchy, it is relevant on it's own, same basis.

Ascertained fact. It's a policeman's lot, what?

best wishes

Phil

Again, as above, you are referring to individual personal opinion of the case and not procedure. You seem to be confused.

As for Neil, I can tell you he is normal.
Until he hears that the force could have disregarded some evidence.

No, Im fine then actually Dave. Its when people try to deliberately mislead I become abnormal. Though, to be honest, how can you tell the difference between normality and abnormality here?


Monty

[Tom_Wescott]

To suggest the police were underinformed implies there was a more informed source available,

Yeah, the killer(s).

and as the bulk of police files have not survived, well... so much for that idea...

But most of the reports have survived, and the mountains of memoirs, many of them written when the investigator was fresh off the force and free to talk. You will notice I said that "individually" the police were underinformed. This is simply a fact. A few guys at the top had a lot more information than the guys leading on the streets, such as Reid and Abberline. Communication does not appear to have been very good WITHIN the Met Police, so that's why I say it's impossible to fathom that the Met and City forces had a great flow of communication. Monty disagrees, but I will remind everyone of the Met report that implicitly states that the City force is not sharing all their information.

Also, they were not competing for anything, and the meetings were not for the media or public, so they were not meeting just for the "appearance".

This is extraordinarily naive. Individual stations were competing for the capture of Jack, but nothing could compare to the competition between the Met and City. They were like two political parties, disagreeing on every salient point, and vying for the love of the press (the City won that one hands down, and that was no accident).

This isn't conspiracy talk here, but relatively obvious observations that we see not only in the Ripper case, but virtually all high profile cases.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Normal you are not, Phil.
And stop blaming Norway.
As for Neil, I can tell you he is normal.
Until he hears that the force could have disregarded some evidence.

Longo mai ! (twas your birthday recently, no ?)

Mais oui mon ami, l'anniversaire grande..27 x 2.

A pack of cards has 52 cards. Then, I was a full pack. Last year, I was the joker. This year I'm the one who calls out the bridge scores.

Next year I'll be nearer 60 than 50. My only consolation is that I''m still nearer 30 than 90.

Nope, pas normal.

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

Normal you are not, Phil.
And stop blaming Norway.
As for Neil, I can tell you he is normal.
Until he hears that the force could have disregarded some evidence.

Longo mai ! (twas your birthday recently, no ?)

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil



Nope. Neil thinks you can read something that can change your mind, as if you were normal.



Could be worse, my friend.

Hello David,

Normal?..I live in a country that can have temperature swings of over 60 and 70 degrees throughout the year. ANYBODY living here needs to be totally abnormal. Anyone CHOOSING to live here needs a brain scan.

Those not qualifying for the mad scan, must be old and outdated Ripperologists lol...

Mad scan here I come-

best wishes mon ami

Phil

[DVV]

Hi Phil

Perhaps it is wishful thinking

Nope. Neil thinks you can read something that can change your mind, as if you were normal.

I do hope you are well, and that you and La Belle France is enjoying 2012!
best wishes

Could be worse, my friend. How about Big North ? All windows are wide open here and tourists would not leave us alone.