Assignation of Victims to a single killer

[Phil Carter]

As far as I can make out, Neil feels that the new Ripperologist can dephilcaterize Phil Carter.

Hello David,

Well, that will be fun then, a whole magazine dedicated to the infantile pursuit of belittling a human being. Must be a belated birthday pressi. Hahaha! Don't think so, somehow..
Perhaps it is wishful thinking, David. Hahaha!
I wasn't even at York, either. Shame that. I heard that the presentations were excellent.

I do hope you are well, and that you and La Belle France are enjoying 2012!

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

As far as I can make out, Neil feels that the new Ripperologist can dephilcaterize Phil Carter.

[Phil Carter]

Nah Phil,

Not going to happen old son.

What you state has nothing to do with cross force co-operation and liaison, which is an ascertained fact.

I do hope you are looking forward to the upcoming Ripperologist Magazine. If not, you should.

Kindly

Monty

Hello Monty,

Apart from the fact I look forward to EVERY new Rip Mag, you seem to know more than we others still waiting for it? So is there a particular reason I SHOULD be looking forward it.... this edition especially more than any other?

Force co operation being factual is fine by me Monty, totally fine. But ascertained fact produced by and written by individual policemen and presented to us as quoted above.. nope.. that "ain't" happening either. Why? Because the quotes I wrote of simply aren't "ascertained fact"...

So when writing, as you did, of procedure in policing, whether between forces or on an individual basis in the hierarchy, it is relevant on it's own, same basis.

Ascertained fact. It's a policeman's lot, what?

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

Dr Phillips in his capacity as the physician who saw more Ripper victims than any other medico, was being asked questions related to the murder of Mary Kelly or previous Ripper victims with respect to matters of National Security connected with that murder.

Hi Mike.
Wow.
For the first time I picture Dr Phillips as some sort of Nayland Smith saving the Western World.
Can you confirm Jack was Fu Manchu ?

[Monty]

Nah Phil,

Not going to happen old son.

What you state has nothing to do with cross force co-operation and liaison, which is an ascertained fact.

I do hope you are looking forward to the upcoming Ripperologist Magazine. If not, you should.

Kindly

Monty

[Phil Carter]

I'm afraid your ignorance on Police structure and procedure shows.

Its not about what you think nor interpret, this is ascertained fact.

Monty

Hello Monty,

Does that include the Assistant Commissioner of the Met Police in 1888 who in writing of police structure and procedure amongst other things, claim ascertained fact as well? You know the fellow... he loved to use the pretence of handing out moral guilt for people that weren't convicted of a crime. "Anderson was the policeman..."

And Mr Donald Swanson, then ex-policeman, sir... I am so sorry.. but you haven't produced any ascertained fact in your pencilled notes... so what you think doesn't matter either old chap...sorry! "Kosminski" wasn't an "ascertained fact" Nor was the Seaside Home...nor was... etc etc etc..

Oh, and poor Sir Melville MacNagthen, also an ex-policeman when writing his memoirs, and a serving one when writing his Memoranda, it's not what you think or interpret old chap, it's about ascertained fact. Whether you think anyone is more likely than anyone else is not ascertained fact... like the ones you gave us about Ostrog....not. Etc etc etc...

So what he or any policeman thought or interpreted really didnt matter one iota..without ascertained fact, for that matter.

1888 and all that, eh? haha!

So where does that leave us? Ignoring non ascertained fact, I believe.

best wishes

Phil

[Monty]

I agree with Tom on this point gents, I think what you are quoting is double speak for "sure, we'd share any good information that we discover". On the books both forces would be politically bound to follow the mandates and orders of their direct superiors, and I dont recall reading about any daily reviews with City policemen of interviews conducted by the Met, suspects investigated by the Met, clues discovered under Met jurisdiction. In fact until Eddowes the City police had no real impetus or authority to be involved officially in the Ripper investigations.

Thats why the searching of nearby streets that night by Outram, Halse and Marriott still puzzles me. Its not like the City had any reason to assign men to specifically search any area within their control for "couples" or strange men...no-one would have ever predicted a city kill before The DE.

Cheers

I'm afraid your ignorance on Police structure and procedure shows.

The mandate for all police forces is clear and was set out from Peels 9 principles back in 1829, especially No 8.

The City and the Met liaised prior to the murders, they assisted across juresdictional boundaries during the murders (to the point where they developed procedure during the murders regarding specific actions once a body was found) and they continue to do that today.

Its not about what you think nor interpret, this is ascertained fact.

Monty

[Michael W Richards]

The mention of city witnesses...be that Lawende or a now unknown City Policeman...being involved in a Met ID surely suggests a greater degree of co-operation than that Michael?

All the best

Dave

The act suggests co-operation, sure, but in context I believe we are talking about an event that occurred after the Ripper murders were assumed to be over. Not at the hottest point of the investigations.

All the best Dave.

[Cogidubnus]

The mention of city witnesses...be that Lawende or a now unknown City Policeman...being involved in a Met ID surely suggests a greater degree of co-operation than that Michael?

All the best

Dave

[Michael W Richards]

I'm sorry, but the police individually were horribly underinformed, so it's impossible to fathom that the two competing forces shared and shared alike. Sure, they did to a certain extent, for appearances, but that's as far as it went.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I agree with Tom on this point gents, I think what you are quoting is double speak for "sure, we'd share any good information that we discover". On the books both forces would be politically bound to follow the mandates and orders of their direct superiors, and I dont recall reading about any daily reviews with City policemen of interviews conducted by the Met, suspects investigated by the Met, clues discovered under Met jurisdiction. In fact until Eddowes the City police had no real impetus or authority to be involved officially in the Ripper investigations.

Thats why the searching of nearby streets that night by Outram, Halse and Marriott still puzzles me. Its not like the City had any reason to assign men to specifically search any area within their control for "couples" or strange men...no-one would have ever predicted a city kill before The DE.

Cheers

[Michael W Richards]

Hi All,

Has anybody got any ideas on why Dr. Phillips had a private meeting at the House of Commons with the Under-Secretary for the Home Office on the evening of the Millers Court murder?

Regards,

Simon

I dont know Simon, but a very interesting tidbit indeed. Using what I hope is logical interpretation of that data, I would assume that Dr Phillips in his capacity as the physician who saw more Ripper victims than any other medico, was being asked questions related to the murder of Mary Kelly or previous Ripper victims with respect to matters of National Security connected with that murder.

Something like that?

Cheers Mr Wood

[DVV]

Hi Simon. I have none. You might have some.

[Wickerman]

Hi All,

Has anybody got any ideas on why Dr. Phillips had a private meeting at the House of Commons with the Under-Secretary for the Home Office on the evening of the Millers Court murder?

Regards,

Simon

Only an idea..... that the Under-sec, Anderson & Warren had collaborated to bring Dr. Bond in, in an official capacity and perhaps to inform Dr. Phillips that they would be pleased if he would agree to working in tandem along with Dr. Bond for the official post-mortem of the latest victim?

Regards, Jon S.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Has anybody got any ideas on why Dr. Phillips had a private meeting at the House of Commons with the Under-Secretary for the Home Office on the evening of the Millers Court murder?

Regards,

Simon

[Wickerman]

I'm sorry, but the police individually were horribly underinformed, so it's impossible to fathom that the two competing forces shared and shared alike. Sure, they did to a certain extent, for appearances, but that's as far as it went.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

To suggest the police were underinformed implies there was a more informed source available, and as the bulk of police files have not survived, well... so much for that idea...

Also, they were not competing for anything, and the meetings were not for the media or public, so they were not meeting just for the "appearance".

Regards, Jon S.