Astrology and Ripperology

[Celesta]

Astrology, soothsaying, etc. were a part of our early religions, going a long way back in human history. Believe in it, or not, to sneer at it is to sneer at our ancestors. Just remember that they accomplished a great deal, while they were using astrology, oracles, and other such devices, and we still marvel at their accomplishments today. Many of us have moved beyond the use of astrology, but we all rest on the accomplishments of those who did use it.

Best,

Celesta

[Doctor X]

Should anyone demonstrate relevance to Ripperology of astrology, bone-pointing, extispicy, or other vaticinia ex eventu I am sure it will be on the news. Until then . . . there actually reliable avenues of research.

"And I have nothing more to say."

--J.D.

[Ally]

Did I mention a specific one? I insulted religions. I didn't insult any particular one so no, I didn't insult "a person's religion". However, semantics aside, the point is better made by this:

No one has to believe in astrology. You can argue that it's false, you can argue that it is not scientifically feasible.

Don't call a person names or cowardly or idiotic because they believe in something you do not when it is part of their religion. Every single religion has things that viewed by non-believers make it as laughable as some would consider a belief in astrology.

Point out the facts when dealing with religion and leave the judgements out of it.

[Christine]

Well...if someone made the claim that he had solved the Ripper case by religious revelation, it would be fair to ask for evidence that religious revelation has solved murder cases successfully in the past.

If his response was "my whole religion is based on revelation and is obviously correct" that would be likely to evoke scorn.

This isn't really parallel to what has happened in this thread. I for one am willing to accept that astrology provides some people with some things that they value and find meaningful, without accepting at all that astrology has any practical and testable use.

People find value and inspiration in things as diverse as the Harry Potter books and collecting rocks, and religion is very high on the list. I would hope that everyone can understand that I can find their personal choices to be a bit silly, but still accept that they are valid for that person and deserve at least to be respected.

Personally, I have been known to read tarot cards. I like the pre-nineteenth century ones, when the "standard" deck underwent a lot of revisions. The cards throw some random symbols at you which oftentimes gets you to think about a problem in a new way, and can be very helpful. However, I would never claim that the cards give anyone information that they didn't already have, at least on a subconscious level. I suspect that this is what 23Skidoo is doing with astrology and the Ripper problem.

Unfortunately, there was a Ripper, and who and what he was is not a function of my personal feelings about serial killers or anything else. So I doubt that doing a tarot reading for Jack would give me any usable insights.

[Jenni Shelden]

All solving of the Ripper case thus far depending on a certian amount of belief!

[Celesta]

Celesta,
Organised religion,political ideology and psuedo logic have taken the place of our ancestors divining methods.Only the label has changed.Id guess we would have as much chance "finding the ripper" using a divining rod,an oracle....or astrology, as by the methods we are using now.:rolleyes2:
As for religion,there are too many gods,too much choice and not enough evidence...Im an apathetic agnostic..I dont know and I certainly dont care.
DOMINICUS VOBISCUM

Gee, Dougie, this is certainly encouraging! (RE: your remark in bold above.) I won't argue much with your remarks on religion, but I know there are sincere people also who follow belief systems. As long as they are decent and do no harm, I have no concerns about them.

[Celesta]

This isn't really parallel to what has happened in this thread. I for one am willing to accept that astrology provides some people with some things that they value and find meaningful, without accepting at all that astrology has any practical and testable use.

People find value and inspiration in things as diverse as the Harry Potter books and collecting rocks, and religion is very high on the list. I would hope that everyone can understand that I can find their personal choices to be a bit silly, but still accept that they are valid for that person and deserve at least to be respected.

Yes, Christine, good point, and one I meant to make as well. People often enjoy astrology and the things you mentioned for their own interests and pleasure. The Tarot can actually lead to studies of Kaballah, and other interesting mystical traditions. Study of astrology can lead to an interest in Mythology, another enlightening area, as Marcea Eliade, Joseph Campbell, and Robert Graves illustrate.

[Sam Flynn]

Study of astrology can lead to an interest in Mythology, another enlightening area, as Marcea Eliade, Joseph Campbell, and Robert Graves illustrate.

Indeed, Celesta, but people would save an awful lot of wasted time (and, in some cases, money) by skipping Mystic Meg and heading straight for The White Goddess.

[JSchmidt]

I think judgement may be the wrong word there Ally, we may judge religion according to our own ideas and standards and also write what criticisms we have to offer.
But we shouldn't insult people and we also should not be condescending.

[Admin]

This thread is about Ripperology and Astrology as the title indicates. Discuss astrology as it pertains to Ripperology and whether it is plausible as a theory. Further off-topic comments will be deleted.

[belinda]

I've been looking at the astrological event charts for the murders. I'm no expert but they are very interesting. Need to study them a bit more first though, would be interesting to see how the natal charts of suspects connect to. Yes its unorthodox but even the cops employ psychics...

By event charts you mean you have plotted charts for the times of the murders I'm only familiar with natal charts for people's birth times.
I used to be very interested in Astrology etc I don't have any strong feelings about it either way any more but it helped me out when I was going through a tough time as a teenager
Have you done any natal charts for any of the victims

[JSchmidt]

Well, did anything that you think is remarkable show up during your analysis?

[Gideon Fell]

I believe there was a book published in the USA many years ago in which 'the Astrologer looked' at Jack the Ripper and found Druitt to be the Ripper.