Did American Astronauts land on the moon 1969?

[Robert]

So is it being argued that the Americans never went to the moon at all - that 1969 and all subsequent missions were fake?

[Herlock Sholmes]

So is it being argued that the Americans never went to the moon at all - that 1969 and all subsequent missions were fake?

I haven’t heard if Conspiracy Loons also disbelieve the subsequent landings but it’s probable. Then again, I can’t be certain that this is me typing

[FISHY1118]

Pleassssss spare with with the'' We’ve trying to help poor fishy'' what rubbish .It wont work . Get out from under the rock you've hiding under and take a good look around. you never could understand knight theory which ive clearly explained, based on all the evidence, and most people would agree is certainly possible.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Pleassssss spare with with the'' We’ve trying to help poor fishy'' what rubbish .It wont work . Get out from under the rock you've hiding under and take a good look around. you never could understand knight theory which ive clearly explained, based on all the evidence, and most people would agree is certainly possible.

No they wouldn’t Fishy. Open your eyes. You are the only one saying that this joke theory is workable and there’s a very good reason why that’s the case. And just saying that something is possible and therefore not impossible does not make it at all likely. It’s not impossible that the murders were committed by Lord Salisbury or The Prince Of Wales Or Major Henry Smith but it’s at the most extreme end of likelihood so we give the suggestions no time. Like Knight’s nonsense.

Why do keep making the pointless accusation that I don’t understand Knights theory? It’s not exactly String Theory. I’ve read Knight, Fairclough, Andy and Sue Parlour and Jean Overton Fuller all more that once. There’s no great mystery.

99.99999% of people accept that Knight’s theory is nonsense Fishy. That’s a definite FACT.

[FISHY1118]

Yes they would herlock ,

Why do keep making the pointless accusation that I don’t understand Knights theory

Because you dont , and i dont have the time to spend explaining the significant between j.s, w.s, jean overton fuller, and florence pash ,violet overton fuller . IF YOU CANT WORK THAT OUT YOUD BETTER STICK TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD KILLED KENNEDY THEORY ,LIKE THE WARREN COMMISSION SAYS.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes they would herlock ,



Because you dont , and i dont have the time to spend explaining the significant between j.s, w.s, jean overton fuller, and florence pash ,violet overton fuller . IF YOU CANT WORK THAT OUT YOUD BETTER STICK TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD KILLED KENNEDY THEORY ,LIKE THE WARREN COMMISSION SAYS.

Utter drivel.

It appears that you are the only person in the world that understands then Fishy. You must be a genius.

You disguise it well.

[FISHY1118]

yes i thought it was to complicated for you to understand . im not one bit surprised

[Herlock Sholmes]

Written by a liar for gullible idiots.

[FISHY1118]

Ahhhh someones getting nasty and personal not a good sign,

[Herlock Sholmes]

Just being honest.

Try it.

Joseph Sickert was a liar. So was Knight. The theory has be thoroughly trashed. How else can you describe someone that’s still desperate enough to believe it?

[APerno]

No one disputes that Gargarin was the first man in space.

And as for Oswald. When I see bullets and shell casings matching that gun to the exclusion of all other guns. And that the gun and the revolver were bought by Alex Hidell, a person that no one has ever found except that Oswald had a library card in that name. When I see that the gun had Oswald’s prints on it and that he was actually in possession of the gun that killed Tippit he was arrested. And that people ID’d him as the man that shot Tippit. That he avoided catching the bus from the Book Depository that would have taken him straight to his boarding house in favour of a bus that dropped him a considerable distance away and that he jumped off that bus into a taxi and got it to drop him a distance away from his door. And what did the innocent Oswald pick up at his boarding house? Oh yeah...a gun.The fact that he got the job at the Book Depository way before anyone knew that the President would pass that way. The ludicrous curtain rods story when he was obviously carrying a rifle. The fact that no evidence of a gunman on the grassy knoll was ever found. No footprints, shell casings...nothing. Then you have the mistaken a lying witnesses like the guy who said that he hit the deck then had his camera film taken by a secret service man. Only problem was that at the exact time this was happening a woman took a photo from the other side of the road and oops he wasn’t there. Shots reproduced, trajectories lined up. No missing bullet as there’d have to have been if the second bullet had missed Connolly.

And after 56 years years not one remotely creditable person has broken ranks and shown this conspiracy to have been real. A conspiracy so wide reaching I can’t imagine how many must have been involved.

So yes, I’d say the overwhelming weight of likelihood is that Oswald killed Kennedy alone. A disgruntled little nobody. It happens.

Here to me lies the rub. The Warren Commission Report offers (as one of Oswald's possible motives) "(c) His urge to try to find a place in history and despair at times over failures in his various undertakings;"

The problem I have with this is well expressed by you in the narrative above; Oswald killed, ran, evaded, kill again, and hid. When captured he then denied.

At prima facie that might seem a normal reaction but we have a deep historical record of presidential assassination attempts and successes where the motive is already attributed to the phrase "to try to find a place in history . . ." but the problem is that none of those participants acted like Oswald.

They all killed up-close and personal, and wanted recognition; Oswald killed at a distance, ran and denied.

Booth shot Lincoln in the head with a hand gun and then jumped to center stage to virtually take a bow before fleeing, a stage he repeatedly acted on and where the audience knew him well.

Guiteau (Garfield) killed up close and personal and then ran around the train platform yelling "Now Chester Arthur is president." Guiteau was so bent on getting caught (recognition) that he delayed his attack until he could afford a pearl handle revolver because he wanted his assassination weapon, when displayed for the public, to be of a higher quality than the wooden handle gun he originally purchased. (BTW To this day, for that reason The Smithsonian will not display the weapon to the public.);

Czolgosz (McKinley) stood on a damn platform before a crowd and shook hands as he pulled the trigger and of course made no attempt to flee, only concerned that his political complaints be aired.

Schrank (T. Roosevelt) stood amidst a crowd and fired a hand gun; made no attempt to flee.

Sirhan (Robert Kennedy) firing a hand gun stood amidst a crowd making no attempt to escape. At home he had notebooks filled with rants against RFK.

Bremer (George Wallace) firing a hand gun stood amidst a crowd making no attempt to escape. Bremer admitted that he spent a week practicing a "cool" phrase to say when he shot Wallace, but got too excited and said nothing. Disappointed with himself he made sure the press knew what he forgot to say: "A penny for your thoughts." (Personally I don't think he should have bragged about that phrase, he had a week to come up with something better.)

"Squeaky" Fromme (Ford) the dumb Manson child who forget to put the bullet in the chamber, stood amidst a crowd and announced "He is not a public servant" just to make sure everyone was looking at her, and then "click." She made no attempt to flee, wanted Charlie to know she was still with him.

Moore (Ford) standing amidst a crowd made loud pro feminist remarks drawing attention to herself before letting loose with a hand gun. Her political statements caused the man next to her to notice her and interfere with her aim. She made no attempt to run.

Hinckley Jr. (Reagan) was so excited when apprehended that the Secret Service found that if they praised Hinckley for getting off so many shots before they wrestled him to the ground (which is all he wanted) he would cooperate and confess everything. Hinckley made no effort to run all he wanted was the Secret Service's praise and Jodie Foster's attention.

All killed or attempted to kill up-close and very personal. All wanted to be captured and wanted the recognition that goes along with that infamous phrase "to try to find a place in history . . ."

But not Oswald, he killed at a distance like a professional, he sought to get away, killed again, then hid, and then denied.

If he was so driven by the same motive as all the others why did he act so differently? One has to think Oswald expected to get praise from someone, somewhere, but who?

You called him a disgruntled little nobody. OK, so what do you envision him doing after the kill? Was he going to get away, run home to a dingy little apartment, so he could sit in front of his TV with a chicken pot pie, and NOT watch himself on the news? Can't find a place in history like that, that just keeps you a disgruntled little man.

Oswald wanted to get away, and had he gotten away, any praise he might have hoped to get, had to come from someone who knew what he did, and that says conspiracy.

What we do know about Oswald, was that he was a 'big mouth' and people like that need praise. Oswald expected to get it from someone.

[FISHY1118]

WOW very comprehensive post im a big fan

[FISHY1118]

In fact its probably the best reply to a post ive seen,, well done

[etenguy]

Oswald wanted to get away, and had he gotten away, any praise he might have hoped to get, had to come from someone who knew what he did, and that says conspiracy.

What we do know about Oswald, was that he was a 'big mouth' and people like that need praise. Oswald expected to get it from someone.

A well argued and convincing post, APerno. I know too little of this event to hold an opinion but to play devil's advocate, it is possible he wanted a manhunt before being caught to ratchet up his feeling of achievement and self worth. I wonder if it is also possible he wanted to be the man that got away with killing the President. I have no idea, but your arguments are compelling.

Back to moon landings - just registering that I think it is a conspiracy theory too far to suggest they were faked.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Here to me lies the rub. The Warren Commission Report offers (as one of Oswald's possible motives) "(c) His urge to try to find a place in history and despair at times over failures in his various undertakings;"

The problem I have with this is well expressed by you in the narrative above; Oswald killed, ran, evaded, kill again, and hid. When captured he then denied.

At prima facie that might seem a normal reaction but we have a deep historical record of presidential assassination attempts and successes where the motive is already attributed to the phrase "to try to find a place in history . . ." but the problem is that none of those participants acted like Oswald.

They all killed up-close and personal, and wanted recognition; Oswald killed at a distance, ran and denied.

Booth shot Lincoln in the head with a hand gun and then jumped to center stage to virtually take a bow before fleeing, a stage he repeatedly acted on and where the audience knew him well.

Guiteau (Garfield) killed up close and personal and then ran around the train platform yelling "Now Chester Arthur is president." Guiteau was so bent on getting caught (recognition) that he delayed his attack until he could afford a pearl handle revolver because he wanted his assassination weapon, when displayed for the public, to be of a higher quality than the wooden handle gun he originally purchased. (BTW To this day, for that reason The Smithsonian will not display the weapon to the public.);

Czolgosz (McKinley) stood on a damn platform before a crowd and shook hands as he pulled the trigger and of course made no attempt to flee, only concerned that his political complaints be aired.

Schrank (T. Roosevelt) stood amidst a crowd and fired a hand gun; made no attempt to flee.

Sirhan (Robert Kennedy) firing a hand gun stood amidst a crowd making no attempt to escape. At home he had notebooks filled with rants against RFK.

Bremer (George Wallace) firing a hand gun stood amidst a crowd making no attempt to escape. Bremer admitted that he spent a week practicing a "cool" phrase to say when he shot Wallace, but got too excited and said nothing. Disappointed with himself he made sure the press knew what he forgot to say: "A penny for your thoughts." (Personally I don't think he should have bragged about that phrase, he had a week to come up with something better.)

"Squeaky" Fromme (Ford) the dumb Manson child who forget to put the bullet in the chamber, stood amidst a crowd and announced "He is not a public servant" just to make sure everyone was looking at her, and then "click." She made no attempt to flee, wanted Charlie to know she was still with him.

Moore (Ford) standing amidst a crowd made loud pro feminist remarks drawing attention to herself before letting loose with a hand gun. Her political statements caused the man next to her to notice her and interfere with her aim. She made no attempt to run.

Hinckley Jr. (Reagan) was so excited when apprehended that the Secret Service found that if they praised Hinckley for getting off so many shots before they wrestled him to the ground (which is all he wanted) he would cooperate and confess everything. Hinckley made no effort to run all he wanted was the Secret Service's praise and Jodie Foster's attention.

All killed or attempted to kill up-close and very personal. All wanted to be captured and wanted the recognition that goes along with that infamous phrase "to try to find a place in history . . ."

But not Oswald, he killed at a distance like a professional, he sought to get away, killed again, then hid, and then denied.

If he was so driven by the same motive as all the others why did he act so differently? One has to think Oswald expected to get praise from someone, somewhere, but who?

You called him a disgruntled little nobody. OK, so what do you envision him doing after the kill? Was he going to get away, run home to a dingy little apartment, so he could sit in front of his TV with a chicken pot pie, and NOT watch himself on the news? Can't find a place in history like that, that just keeps you a disgruntled little man.

Oswald wanted to get away, and had he gotten away, any praise he might have hoped to get, had to come from someone who knew what he did, and that says conspiracy.

What we do know about Oswald, was that he was a 'big mouth' and people like that need praise. Oswald expected to get it from someone.

This post puts me in the very worrying position of actually agreeing with Fishy on something.

A very good post

My point would be that we have no way of knowing Oswald’s thought processes or motivations. From what we know of him it appears that he was the kind of man that felt that society had dealt him a raw deal. That he hadn’t gotten the respect or the results that he felt that he deserved. A string of mediocre jobs and a separation from his wife. No real prospects. As we know, people that kill often feel that they are showing the world how clever they are. We know of killers leaving taunting messages or insinuating themselves in some way into the investigation.

Oswald tried not to get caught but he did. Perhaps if he hadn’t have gotten caught he would have had the satisfaction; the ego boost of knowing that he was the man that had killed the President and fooled all of the law enforcement agencies? It turned out though that he was nowhere near as clever as he’d thought he was.