Ta-ra-ra Boom-de-ay

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,


The subject of "Eight little whores" and it's invention by Donald McCormick got me thinking as to the other little rhymes in his book.

In the original hardback edition of "The Identity of Jack the Ripper" from 1959 (Jarrolds), the reference to the famous Music Hall song Ta-ra-ra Boom-de-ay on page 145 says the following:-

"Naming Jack the Ripper became almost a parlour game in the years between 1888 and 1900. Many criminologists are apt to be romantics and there was a great temptation to identify the 'Ripper' with some other villain executed for other offences round about this period "... and wove Frederick Deeming's demise into the song, calling him the Ripper.

"Such doggerel led to the statement in the Press that 'Scotland Yard is convinced that the 'Ripper' was Frederick Deeming, who was caught in Australia for the murder of his wife in Britain'.

The verse itself is found under the suspects section on this site.

What struck me was that Deeming was arrested in March 1892. I simply looked up the origin of the song.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta-ra-ra_Boom-de-ay

I found that it was originally an American Music Hall song from 1891 from "Tuxedo", and didn't become popular until first performed in 1892 in Britain under the production of an Opera "Miss Heylett". A version appeared in France in 1891 (in French).

For the music hall song to have gained popularity firstly, and then the lyrics involving Deeming's scaffold visit to have been included, it would have to have had time to gather it's popularity. Where McCormick interwove this doggerel into the story however, he failed to provide any example of this song being in print in the form he suggested. I have trawled through many a magazine and newspaper looking for this in print, and have come to the inevitable conclusion that McCormick (and or an associate who Melvin Harris referred to) has invented the lines of the doggerel himself.

It is noted with some amusement that the reference and verse do NOT appear in the paperback revised version of the book from 1970 (Arrow).


best wishes

Phil

[The Good Michael]

]

I found that it was originally an American Music Hall song from 1891 from "Tuxedo", and didn't become popular until first performed in 1892 in Britain under the production of an Opera "Miss Heylett". A version appeared in France in 1891 (in French).

Phil,

The link you sent showed that the song was heard, possibly in St.Louis in the 1880s. In the late 19th century there were a lot of black minstrels with songs like this who came from the southern states and toured up into places like Missouri. One supposes they were connected to the Mississippi and movement of goods and services between St Louis and New Orleans. In fact, Mark Twain talks about these minstrel shows as being some of the most exciting events in his childhood in Hannibal, MO. I'd bet that the song goes a lot farther back than even the 1880s and might even be a pre-civil war invention. We see similarities in songs by Stephen Foster who copied and even wrote "Negro" songs.

Mike

[Debra A]

Inventions or not; both the rhyme "ten little...." and the song Ta-ra-ra Boom-de-ay were published extensively in magazines like Punch and Funny Folk with the words slightly altered to satirise the latest political situation, gossip or news.
So, if they were McCormick inventions they were very cleverly done to mimic what the satirical magazines were also doing in this period. Early 1892 brings the most hits for Ta-ra-ra Boom-de-ay, whereas using "ten little [whatever you like]" was popular from the mid 1800s.

[sdreid]

I remember the late George Carlin using it in his comedy routine joking that no one knew the words of the song beyond the chorus and sort of just faking it. He later sings it with his own bluer lyrics.

[Phil Carter]

Inventions or not; both the rhyme "ten little...." and the song Ta-ra-ra Boom-de-ay were published extensively in magazines like Punch and Funny Folk with the words slightly altered to satirise the latest political situation, gossip or news.
So, if they were McCormick inventions they were very cleverly done to mimic what the satirical magazines were also doing in this period. Early 1892 brings the most hits for Ta-ra-ra Boom-de-ay, whereas using "ten little [whatever you like]" was popular from the mid 1800s.

Hello Debs,

Yes I agree. It was very clever and inventive. The manner in which McCormick used source material and even invented his own is ably described in part by Melvin Harris in his dissertation.

As I've written, I've trawled through magazines and newspapers without sign of the 'Ripper' being in this particular verse. Good luck and well done to anyone finding the known example in contemporary written form I say!

He also used 'Pop goes the Weasel' which was kept in the revised version, unlike the Ta-ra-ra ditty.. This song (PGTW) is from 1850 or so and in popular use in childrens parlour games.

I do know that various scholars between 1959 and 1970 questioned McCormick about many things in his version of events. Robin Odell included.

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

I remember the late George Carlin using it in his comedy routine joking that no one knew the words of the song beyond the chorus and sort of just faking it. He later sings it with his own bluer lyrics.

Hello Stan,

You know, I'd forgotten that about Carlin. Thanks for the reminder!

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Phil,

The link you sent showed that the song was heard, possibly in St.Louis in the 1880s. In the late 19th century there were a lot of black minstrels with songs like this who came from the southern states and toured up into places like Missouri. One supposes they were connected to the Mississippi and movement of goods and services between St Louis and New Orleans. In fact, Mark Twain talks about these minstrel shows as being some of the most exciting events in his childhood in Hannibal, MO. I'd bet that the song goes a lot farther back than even the 1880s and might even be a pre-civil war invention. We see similarities in songs by Stephen Foster who copied and even wrote "Negro" songs.

Mike

Hello Mike,

In the USA, I'd agree. The first known use of it in the UK is 1892 however.

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

I previously referred to the use of Pop Goes the Weasel in McCormick's book. If any of you have it.. just read the supposed factual converstions that lead up to the interwoven verse of Pop goes the Weasel and beyond, in the scene set for the Tabram Murder. It really is heart rendering stuff. Where he got the known conversations from, in "Cockney" dialect is unknown. Especially the way he interwove the name Martha into a pub song too. Very very inventive.

best wishes

Phil

[The Good Michael]

Hello Mike,

In the USA, I'd agree. The first known use of it in the UK is 1892 however.

best wishes

That would mean that Englishmen had never heard a minstrel show in America in the years from ca. 1830-1892, and had never brought back to England any of the songs from them, assuming that this is such a one; or that no Americans ever brought some of this music to England in the same period. So many songs and tunes that we associate with the exciting times of Irish rebellion come from much earlier songs and from Irish to English language. My meaning here is that often credit is given for the creation of music that isn't someone's creaion actually, and cannot ne pinpointed. A date for such things is never accurate and can only give a rough idea of something. The song became popular because it was part of a huge production that was, presumably advertized and talked about. That doesn't mean that it wasn't heard and wasn't popular earlier, and especially in pubs where the working class was as that's where so much music was passed on, from migrant to migrant.

Anyway, I was just giving my opinion and I in no way support McCormick's theories.

Mike

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello all,

I previously referred to the use of Pop Goes the Weasel in McCormick's book. If any of you have it.. just read the supposed factual converstions that lead up to the interwoven verse of Pop goes the Weasel and beyond, in the scene set for the Tabram Murder. It really is heart rendering stuff. Where he got the known conversations from, in "Cockney" dialect is unknown. Especially the way he interwove the name Martha into a pub song too. Very very inventive.

best wishes

Phil

The man was after all what I would term a Creative Ripperologist.

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

I am hugely indebted to Robert Linford, who very kindly sent me a curiousity that has got me, and him, wondering, about the "Boom-de-ay" song. This is an extract from The Milwaukee Observer Jan 22nd 1876.

"One day French sat in a saloon whistling, keeping time with his fingers and glancing over the beer from under his hat brim, when in strode Conductor Ed.Lynch, Dave Lavery, Fred. Carignigan and other veteran Illinois Central Workers. What was their astonishment at hearing him whistling away for dear life on that imported English abomination, "Ta-ra-ra Boom-de-ay".

Now this goes against the present known origins of the song, as American. I note also the date, 1876.
I have again done a search trying to relate this song to the Jack the Ripper verse in McCormick's book, all once again without result. So as yet, McCormick's verse is unknown.

best wishes

Phil

[Robert]

Hi Phil

A correspondent to the PMG even suggested that the melody was a paraphrase in 2/4 time of "Pestal's Waltz," popular 40 years before. That would I think send the song's origin to Poland.

There was litigation in England in the 1890s over copyright infingement, but as far as I can make out the litigation was over the revised version of the song. The chorus seems to have been the song's main selling point, so the question is, where did that come from?

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil

A correspondent to the PMG even suggested that the melody was a paraphrase in 2/4 time of "Pestal's Waltz," popular 40 years before. That would I think send the song's origin to Poland.

There was litigation in England in the 1890s over copyright infingement, but as far as I can make out the litigation was over the revised version of the song. The chorus seems to have been the song's main selling point, so the question is, where did that come from?

Hello Robert,

Where indeed, and as that happens to be the title, or more correctly, the title is the essence of the chorus, from where does the origin of the version in McCormick's book derive, if not from McCormick himself? I can find nothing.

Thank you again for your efforts in this tiny detail. Intriguing.

best wishes

Phil