Politics

[lynn cates]

Quail

Hello Mac. You might want to rethink that just a tad. Why not have a go at John Quail's "The Slow Burning Fuse"?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

nuance

Hello Tom. Very well put. There must be nuance upon nuance for any such theory to work.

The Berner street group were rather too peaceable for such. The club Autonomie? Sure, but a motive? And if it's just to kill, why the "gutting"?

Rachkovski's Okhrana was a good guess, but his Vassiliev story was off by a few weeks and significantly weakens any claim of authorship.

MJK could easily be a Clan-na-Gael "removal" but much more research is needed here.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

points

Hello Dr.

"Firstly - what a way to make a point, the brutal slaying and butchering of 'innocent' women (that is, women who were not politically or socially connected) - overkill to the nth degree."

I tend to agree. First, one must identify the point to be made.

Second, you are right about overkill. That, to my mind, precludes the "series" being started politically.

"And secondly, and perhaps more importantly, if it was a political/social statement it failed utterly - we don't know what the statement was, and despite us still discussing the advertising campaign over 100 years later, we are none the wiser."

And this is what caused me to put Rachkovski on the back burner. His "statement" was out by about 4 weeks.

On the other hand, nothing precludes Liz, Kate or MJ being killed for political reasons. Of course, one must get clear on which group one is indicting.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

precision

Hello Scorpio. As a broad outline, this does not look bad. But what is needed is precision.

Can any of this be narrowed down a bit?

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleet. I apologize for not being clearer. I don't personally think any group was behind the murders in order to support a political agenda. I just mean I think it's quite possible that the murderer was an anarchist, as the movement is well-known to attract nutcases.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Not sure, Tom.

Don't know a great deal about Anarchism, but do know that extreme politics is not something that has ever attracted a half decent following in England - just not our style.

I suppose it could have been one of the Eastern European types.

I still have a hunch that Jack was an Englishman. We seem to do pretty well in when it comes to producing serial killers - per head.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Fleet. I apologize for not being clearer. I don't personally think any group was behind the murders in order to support a political agenda. I just mean I think it's quite possible that the murderer was an anarchist, as the movement is well-known to attract nutcases.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleetwood. Anarchists are typically teeming with criminals and murders, and one of the victims was found in the yard of one of London's most active anarchist hot spots, so I'd have to agree that's a logical starting point for someone exploring a political angle.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

Would the yard not suggest a counter-theory: some group was attempting to undermine the anarchists?

It would be unprecedented, I think, in the event an anarchist group had hatched a plan to bring down a government by means of serial murder aimed at highlighting social ills. On the other hand, governments do mess around in other governments' affairs - both the British and US governments have shown a deft touch in such matters over the years - the Sandinistas for one have first hand experience of a foreign power undermining the domestic government.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Fleetwood. Anarchists are typically teeming with criminals and murders, and one of the victims was found in the yard of one of London's most active anarchist hot spots, so I'd have to agree that's a logical starting point for someone exploring a political angle.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fleetwood Mac]

Does anybody believe that the crimes attributed to JtR have a political angle?.
Victorian Britain was in the midst of social change, and violence is a common either in revolutionary or reactionary terms. Could violence of JtR's stamp be part of an anarchistic ideology?, the strategy of an agent provocateur. Many have stated that the mutilations inflicted upon the body seemed without purpose, but also seemed to proliferate. This suggests that the crimes were intended to shock, but nothing else; each crime needed to be a little more shocking than the next in order to create a pressure cooker effect. Are the crimes some idiosyncratic form of terrorism?. A political group or lone individual could accomplish this.

Why would a political angle militate towards Anarchism?

We know that the German government planned to sow the seeds of revolution in both Russia and Great Britain during WW1, and actively did in Russia.

If anything, a foreign government would have the means to achieve revolution; unlike an anarchist group, which, if memory serves, gravitated towards shooting high profile figures (presumably because they didn't have the means to undertake a concerted effort, and so went for a knock out blow).

I suppose the main problem with the theory is that the squalor of Whitechapel was certainly coming under the microscope, with social commentators, philanthropists, christians and assorted busy bodies calling for social change; so, why stop at Mary Kelly?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Scorpio and Doc. I have looked closely at the anarchist angle in the past, and plan to look closer again in the future. But I can't say anything has stuck out too much, though I suspect Aaron Kosminski may have had anarchist ties.

Simon Wood, Lynn Cates, and Phil Carter are exploring their own, very unique, theories that encompass a political theory to the nth degree, and Spiro D.'s recent, I believes, shows that he's open to a solution that would have political ramifications.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DrHopper]

I don't believe for one second that the crimes were politically motivated.
As evidence to illustrate the point, I would suggest two things.
Firstly - what a way to make a point, the brutal slaying and butchering of 'innocent' women (that is, women who were not politically or socially connected) - overkill to the nth degree.
And secondly, and perhaps more importantly, if it was a political/social statement it failed utterly - we don't know what the statement was, and despite us still discussing the advertising campaign over 100 years later, we are none the wiser.
Indeed, although the crimes were shocking, I don't believe this was the primary motive of the killer, rather, it was an unhappy by-product.
My two-pennorth, for what it's worth.

[Scorpio]

Does anybody believe that the crimes attributed to JtR have a political angle?.
Victorian Britain was in the midst of social change, and violence is a common either in revolutionary or reactionary terms. Could violence of JtR's stamp be part of an anarchistic ideology?, the strategy of an agent provocateur. Many have stated that the mutilations inflicted upon the body seemed without purpose, but also seemed to proliferate. This suggests that the crimes were intended to shock, but nothing else; each crime needed to be a little more shocking than the next in order to create a pressure cooker effect. Are the crimes some idiosyncratic form of terrorism?. A political group or lone individual could accomplish this.