Politics

[Scorpio]

Does anybody believe that the crimes attributed to JtR have a political angle?.
Victorian Britain was in the midst of social change, and violence is a common either in revolutionary or reactionary terms. Could violence of JtR's stamp be part of an anarchistic ideology?, the strategy of an agent provocateur. Many have stated that the mutilations inflicted upon the body seemed without purpose, but also seemed to proliferate. This suggests that the crimes were intended to shock, but nothing else; each crime needed to be a little more shocking than the next in order to create a pressure cooker effect. Are the crimes some idiosyncratic form of terrorism?. A political group or lone individual could accomplish this.

[DrHopper]

I don't believe for one second that the crimes were politically motivated.
As evidence to illustrate the point, I would suggest two things.
Firstly - what a way to make a point, the brutal slaying and butchering of 'innocent' women (that is, women who were not politically or socially connected) - overkill to the nth degree.
And secondly, and perhaps more importantly, if it was a political/social statement it failed utterly - we don't know what the statement was, and despite us still discussing the advertising campaign over 100 years later, we are none the wiser.
Indeed, although the crimes were shocking, I don't believe this was the primary motive of the killer, rather, it was an unhappy by-product.
My two-pennorth, for what it's worth.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Scorpio and Doc. I have looked closely at the anarchist angle in the past, and plan to look closer again in the future. But I can't say anything has stuck out too much, though I suspect Aaron Kosminski may have had anarchist ties.

Simon Wood, Lynn Cates, and Phil Carter are exploring their own, very unique, theories that encompass a political theory to the nth degree, and Spiro D.'s recent, I believes, shows that he's open to a solution that would have political ramifications.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fleetwood Mac]

Does anybody believe that the crimes attributed to JtR have a political angle?.
Victorian Britain was in the midst of social change, and violence is a common either in revolutionary or reactionary terms. Could violence of JtR's stamp be part of an anarchistic ideology?, the strategy of an agent provocateur. Many have stated that the mutilations inflicted upon the body seemed without purpose, but also seemed to proliferate. This suggests that the crimes were intended to shock, but nothing else; each crime needed to be a little more shocking than the next in order to create a pressure cooker effect. Are the crimes some idiosyncratic form of terrorism?. A political group or lone individual could accomplish this.

Why would a political angle militate towards Anarchism?

We know that the German government planned to sow the seeds of revolution in both Russia and Great Britain during WW1, and actively did in Russia.

If anything, a foreign government would have the means to achieve revolution; unlike an anarchist group, which, if memory serves, gravitated towards shooting high profile figures (presumably because they didn't have the means to undertake a concerted effort, and so went for a knock out blow).

I suppose the main problem with the theory is that the squalor of Whitechapel was certainly coming under the microscope, with social commentators, philanthropists, christians and assorted busy bodies calling for social change; so, why stop at Mary Kelly?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Fleetwood. Anarchists are typically teeming with criminals and murders, and one of the victims was found in the yard of one of London's most active anarchist hot spots, so I'd have to agree that's a logical starting point for someone exploring a political angle.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleetwood. Anarchists are typically teeming with criminals and murders, and one of the victims was found in the yard of one of London's most active anarchist hot spots, so I'd have to agree that's a logical starting point for someone exploring a political angle.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

Would the yard not suggest a counter-theory: some group was attempting to undermine the anarchists?

It would be unprecedented, I think, in the event an anarchist group had hatched a plan to bring down a government by means of serial murder aimed at highlighting social ills. On the other hand, governments do mess around in other governments' affairs - both the British and US governments have shown a deft touch in such matters over the years - the Sandinistas for one have first hand experience of a foreign power undermining the domestic government.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Fleet. I apologize for not being clearer. I don't personally think any group was behind the murders in order to support a political agenda. I just mean I think it's quite possible that the murderer was an anarchist, as the movement is well-known to attract nutcases.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleet. I apologize for not being clearer. I don't personally think any group was behind the murders in order to support a political agenda. I just mean I think it's quite possible that the murderer was an anarchist, as the movement is well-known to attract nutcases.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Not sure, Tom.

Don't know a great deal about Anarchism, but do know that extreme politics is not something that has ever attracted a half decent following in England - just not our style.

I suppose it could have been one of the Eastern European types.

I still have a hunch that Jack was an Englishman. We seem to do pretty well in when it comes to producing serial killers - per head.

[lynn cates]

precision

Hello Scorpio. As a broad outline, this does not look bad. But what is needed is precision.

Can any of this be narrowed down a bit?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

points

Hello Dr.

"Firstly - what a way to make a point, the brutal slaying and butchering of 'innocent' women (that is, women who were not politically or socially connected) - overkill to the nth degree."

I tend to agree. First, one must identify the point to be made.

Second, you are right about overkill. That, to my mind, precludes the "series" being started politically.

"And secondly, and perhaps more importantly, if it was a political/social statement it failed utterly - we don't know what the statement was, and despite us still discussing the advertising campaign over 100 years later, we are none the wiser."

And this is what caused me to put Rachkovski on the back burner. His "statement" was out by about 4 weeks.

On the other hand, nothing precludes Liz, Kate or MJ being killed for political reasons. Of course, one must get clear on which group one is indicting.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

nuance

Hello Tom. Very well put. There must be nuance upon nuance for any such theory to work.

The Berner street group were rather too peaceable for such. The club Autonomie? Sure, but a motive? And if it's just to kill, why the "gutting"?

Rachkovski's Okhrana was a good guess, but his Vassiliev story was off by a few weeks and significantly weakens any claim of authorship.

MJK could easily be a Clan-na-Gael "removal" but much more research is needed here.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Quail

Hello Mac. You might want to rethink that just a tad. Why not have a go at John Quail's "The Slow Burning Fuse"?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

murder and politics

Would the yard not suggest a counter-theory: some group was attempting to undermine the anarchists?

Precisely, FM. The Stride slaying looks very much like a provocatory act to me too.

I just mean I think it's quite possible that the murderer was an anarchist, as the movement is well-known to attract nutcases.

Very strongly disagree. The GSG for one thing implies something like what FM and Lynn said. But I agree with you about the possibility that Kozminsky might have had anarchist ties.

The Berner street group were rather too peaceable for such. The club Autonomie? Sure, but a motive? And if it's just to kill, why the "gutting"?
Rachkovski's Okhrana was a good guess, but his Vassiliev story was off by a few weeks and significantly weakens any claim of authorship.

What do you mean "off by a few weeks", Lynn? The first mention of Vassiliev in London newspapers occurred on October 6, 1888, and the Okhrana was real quick to instrumentalize the Stride slaying for their own agenda:
The Times from October 6, 1888, immediately picked up by The Star. (Courtesy of Paul Begg.)

A FRENCH CHAPTER OF WHITECHAPEL HORRORS.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES.
Sir, - The terror which has naturally been so widespread among the masses in the districts where the recent shocking murders were committed was intense enough without its being aggravated by the gratuitous theory of the Coroner, that these horrible outrages were not the act of a maniac, but had been coolly committed by a sane person, who wished to earn a few pounds by gratifying the whims of an eccentric American anatomist. It will, no doubt, be found that the idea that Yankee enterprise gave a stimulus to these terrible atrocities is utterly baseless.
For weeks I have been expecting that some one would draw attention to the fact that precisely the same crimes were many years ago committed in Paris, and were ultimately found to have been the acts of a monomaniac.
Last summer, while travelling in France, I picked up and glanced over a French work resembling "Hone's Every Day Book," which gave an account of a remarkable criminal who must have strongly resembled the fiend who has created such consternation in the East-end of London. For months women of the lowest class of "unfortunates" were found murdered and mutilated in a shocking manner. In the poorest districts of the city a "reign of terror" prevailed. The police seemed powerless to afford any help or protection, and in spite of all their watchfulness fresh cases were from time to time reported, all the victims belonging to the same class, and all having been mutilated in the same fiendish way.
At last a girl one night was accosted in the street by a workman, who asked her to take a walk with him. When, by the light of a lamp, she saw his face, it inspired her with a strange feeling of fear and aversion; and it instantly flashed upon her that he must be the murderer. She therefore gave him in charge of the police, who, on inquiry, found that her woman's instinct had accomplished what had baffled the skill and the exertions of all their detectives. The long-sought criminal had been at last found.
It subsequently came to light that he had been impelled to commit these crimes by a brutal form of homicidal monomania. He had sense enough to know that from this class of women being out late at night, and being friendless and unprotected, he could indulge his horrible craze on them with comparative safety and impunity, and he therefore avoided selecting his victims from a more respectable class.
He was convicted and executed, to the great relief of the public; and if any persons were afterwards tempted to imitate him, his prompt punishment effectually deterred them.
This notorious case must be well known to the Parisian police and to thousands of persons in France, and if inquiry is made its history can be easily procured.
No doubt a ruffian like him has turned up in East London, and will be also detected. When he is, we must trust that he will meet with the same stern justice that was meted out to his French prototype.
Yours obediently, MICHAEL MACK

Lynn, there are some things I'd like to discuss with you pertaining to researching Rachkovsky's ties with detective agencies in BOTH London and Paris. This most obviously will interest Tom as well. I assume that the Palo Alto papers didn't bring much info forward? Or is this thing still pending?

Another fascinating aspect of this case is the fact that one of the suspects implicated himself into the Parnell matter. That's very much what I wanna try to research when I finish with (lots of) previous stuff. For me this could be one of the most fascinating aspects of the Ripper case. All the president's men and all that, lol. Should we make another Watergate out of it?

[lynn cates]

Piotr Rachkovski

Hello Maria. Oddly, I would have picked about that same date to write a letter if I were Rachkovski. But my main complaint is that V is not yet an "Anarchist."

If I am PR, and wishing to "implicate" anarchists with a "Double Event," my letter to the editor would mention that he is "definitely an anarchist."

Happy to discuss Rachkovski. Of course, Palo Alto is on hold UNTIL I learn to read Cyrillic script.

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Lynn,

I think another point which strongly argues against the political angle is this:

He spends a lot of time in Miller's Court, and so increases the risk of being caught.

He clearly doesn't need to where the motive is political. He simply needs to spend 10 minutes doing an 'Eddowes' to maintain the momentum.

In my view, the fact he spends so much time doing such a complete job suggests there is a great deal of value in going to town on her and that value is in satisfying his blood lust.