No talent, or a moving target?

[Jon Guy]

John Sanders and William Holt

Hi Michael

What about medical students ?

As you know,they were considered worthy of police checks at the time.

But yes, in reality, at best, probablilty a slaughterer

[perrymason]

Hi Michael

What about medical students ?

As you know,they were considered worthy of police checks at the time.

But yes, in reality, at best, probablilty a slaughterer

I think youre right Jon, medical students might be in that semi-skilled area.

Remember this....one of the teaching hospitals that was linked with the story of an American Doctor seeking sample of uteri to send with research papers back to the states, did not deny that story. Dont go chasing Dr T just yet.....but it is something worth considering...student...needs money....meets buyer....can handle blood and guts, has no feeling one way or the other about whores or poor people...is a little twisted, but convinces himself he does it for the money. I believe a figure of 20L is mentioned...substantial dough in 1888.

A mini-Jack like character...not full blown blood crazy, but the kind that liked disections in school.

Best regards.

[Jon Guy]

he does it for the money. I believe a figure of 20L is mentioned...substantial dough in 1888.
Best regards.

As you say, £20 per specimen was the figure mentioned.

I read the other day that John Pizer was eventaully awarded £50 by the Star for damages after his "arrest", which was a significant sum. Just an example of the kind of worth of £20

[sdreid]

In today's money, that would be about $5000 for Pizer.

[Sam Flynn]

I read the other day that John Pizer was eventaully awarded £50 by the Star for damages after his "arrest", which was a significant sum. Just an example of the kind of worth of £20

£20 in 1888 was roughly equivalent to £1,100 today; £50 would equate to approximately £2,700 (or just over $5,000 - as Stan has pointed out).

Ref. http://www.anthonytrollope.com/books/money

[perrymason]

How much were medical student tuition and book costs on average at that time? Might roughly the equivalent of 1100 pounds pay for a large part of it? Assuming that a partial delivery isnt of any value.

Cheers all.

[vbede]

I think youre right Jon, medical students might be in that semi-skilled area.

Remember this....one of the teaching hospitals that was linked with the story of an American Doctor seeking sample of uteri to send with research papers back to the states, did not deny that story. Dont go chasing Dr T just yet.....but it is something worth considering...student...needs money....meets buyer....can handle blood and guts, has no feeling one way or the other about whores or poor people...is a little twisted, but convinces himself he does it for the money. I believe a figure of 20L is mentioned...substantial dough in 1888.

A mini-Jack like character...not full blown blood crazy, but the kind that liked disections in school.

Best regards.

Ok, but then how do we account for the unnecessary mutilations?

[perrymason]

Ok, but then how do we account for the unnecessary mutilations?

Of which victims? Of the abdominal organ mutilations, if for the obtaining of organs, only really Kate has unnecessary mutilations. If he intended to get Mary Ann's uterus but was stopped, no issues there, and Annie doesnt have a great deal of unneeded cutting other than what occurred to obtain the prize taken. Facial wounds and the other issues with Kate, including a botched intact uterus extraction if intended to be complete to be of value might be frustration and venting....if his attempt at making 20 pounds is ruined by a stupid error on his part for example.

Cheers.

[Doctor X]

Would someone like that scruffy swine seen with Eddowes in Church Passage really have had the correct tools. I`d be surpised if he could afford a regular bed for the night.

Well . . . that depends on whether or not he was Jack, and whether or not Jack was accurately described . . . and whether or not Jack was "dressing down"--would a butcher look like that . . . et cetera. That speculation I will leave for others. The proper tools include a good pair of scissors. Someone with medical knowledge would have access to such tools.

If one looks at the in situ sketch of Eddowes in Mitre Sq it shows her fully clothed, could he access a kidney from the side ? Surely, he did the most practical thing ?

That is if he was a surgeon wanting access to just the kidney. However, given his mutilation of her belly, it appears that was not the case. My point about the abdominal incision is the accepted incisions--be it surgical or dissection--are designed to avoid the problems Jack encountered--it takes more time to make a jagged "rip" as he did, and it is also harder to "get the job done."

Of course . . . someone could counter that his intent was "hey, I like ripping open women's bellies!" We get into speculating about his motivations, and I leave that to others!

A question for you regarding the removal of Mary Kelly`s heart, the pericardium was open and the heart absent. I have just discovered that the pericardium is the sac round the heart, could he not have swiped this out complete with heart, or did he demonstrate such knowledge that he knew to open the pericardium to excise the heart ?

No, it covers the vessels enough make that difficult. The easiest thing to do is simply slit it open, grab the heart, cut the major vessels, and voila!. The problem is there exists or survives no clear description--like photographs--of how it was removed. Scissors, again, would be easier. Were the vessels "hacked?" As far as I know, no one knows.

--J.D.