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JTR - an outsider ?

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  • JTR - an outsider ?

    I am currently reading Dostoyevskys "Crime and Punishment", for those who dont know it or have not read it, it basically involves a young student who commits a random murder.....which he is neither remorseful or regretful about at the beginning ( though his conscience does begin to eat away at him ). In a particular chapter is the following passage:

    'Hey, you – German hatter!' and began to bellow at him at the top of his voice, pointing at him – the young man suddenly stopped and grabbed convulsively at his hat. This hat had been one of those tall, round affairs from Zimmerman's, but was now completely worn out and faded, covered in holes and stains and missing its brim, so that it cocked over to one side at a most outlandish angle. It was not shame that had assailed him, however, but an emotion of quite a different kind, one more akin to terror.

    'I might have known it!' he muttered in confusion. 'I thought as much! This is worse than any of it! It is exactly this sort of nonsense, some vulgar little trivial detail, that could ruin the whole plan! Yes, a hat that's too conspicuous . . . It's absurd, and that's why it's conspicuous . . . What I need to go with my rags is a peaked cap – any old flat-top will do, but not this museum-piece. Nobody wears things like this, it would be spotted a mile off, people would remember it . . . the main thing is that it would be remembered afterwards, and bang! – they'd have their evidence. In this sort of business you have to be as inconspicuous as possible . . . The details, it's the details that matter more than anything else! . . . It's that sort of detail that always ruins everything. . .'


    At this point he had not committed a crime however he was planning one ( though not murder as yet ).

    Anyway, it got me thinking...this book was written 40 years or so before the WM. Would an outsider have thought this way in Whitechapel with the crimes he was planning and would he have done likewise ? is it possible that he had even read this book ? ( we will never know !! )....if he were Russian it may well be plausible that he had ! I just thought i would share this little snippet of the book with you because it seems so uncannily fitting for the Whitechapel murders when considering an outsider as a suspect.

  • #2
    Raskolnikov types

    Hello Jason. Glad to see someone reads Dostoevski besides me.

    This is an interesting idea. As I recall, Raskolnikov was an intellectual who thought himself above the law and so could do whatever he thought he needed to do. Now, I'm sure there were such people in Whitechapel and thereabouts (eg, D'Onston whilst in hospital).

    It would be interesting to know how many such people lived there and who had a taste for Russian novels.

    Cheers.
    LC

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    • #3
      Mark Chapman ( Lennons killer ) was fascinated by Catcher in the rye i believe so perhaps JTR predates that and is an early example of delusional psychosis ? shame we wont have any photos of the crowd gatherings after the murders because you could probably bet your bottom dollar he would have visited the scenes to gloat

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      • #4
        personality

        Hello Jason. Given a certain personality type, yes, he would.

        Cheers.
        LC

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        • #5
          the irony of the book C and P is that its a prostitute who gives him the chance of redemption......perhaps this ate away at my imaginary JTR and he decided to slay the profession which spoilt an otherwise good book ?

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          • #6
            An erudite Jtr...

            "Crime and Punishment"
            A truly great novel boys as is The Idiot if you can handle the Russian names. I do wish the translator changed all the Rashis.... and Sergies....and Kafels....etc. into Joe's and John's and Ringo's. It would have been much easier for me. Nevertheless, a great novelist who takes up the great Moral questions.

            If we attribute Dosto... reading to Jtr then we are elevating him again. I wonder if he translated Thucydides on the side?

            I mentioned once that Poe wrote a great story about a criminal quietly slithering through a Whitechapel-type neighborhood in London.......did Jtr also read Poe?

            A poor working class miscreant from Whitechapel probably didn't do a lot of pleasure reading. He probably read at an 8th grade level (14 years old), enough to get by in the marketplace.

            But, if you want to elevate Jtr to intellectual status, nobody's saying you can't...


            Greg

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            • #7
              prostitutes

              Hello Jason. Could be. Of course, Fyodor was nearly obsessed with prostitutes. They figured prominently in more that one of his books.

              Cheers.
              LC

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GregBaron View Post
                A truly great novel boys as is The Idiot
                A poor working class miscreant from Whitechapel probably didn't do a lot of pleasure reading. He probably read at an 8th grade level (14 years old), enough to get by in the marketplace.



                Greg
                Hi Greg,

                i wasnt actually thinkiing it was a poor working class miscreant from Whitechapel.....more someone from outside who had considered how he might fit in but whose intellectuality was purposely hidden for what he saw as a way to "be like his hero" Rasko.....just an idea and likely as preposterous as many which have gone before !

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                • #9
                  if JtR was reading anything- it was probably newspapers, penny dreadfuls and medical books (for the pictures).
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

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                  • #10
                    i am sure i read somewhere that there was a Waterstones on the corner of Dorset street across from the Britannia Public House .....the funny thing about this post is when i located the book in my small house library, it was sandwiched in between my JTR books .....

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                    • #11
                      a educated russian with previous ......may or may not have been in the area at the time, speaking several languages and mad as a box of frogs...



                      ok case closed !
                      Last edited by Jason; 03-08-2012, 07:08 PM. Reason: spelling error

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