Before it's too late

[Graham]

I work in the textile industry (the 'rag trade') and until about 10 years ago I had a customer whose premises were in White's Row - I think in the old police-station building. He was a Jewish man, about my age, and his mother helped him run his business. I asked both him and his mother if they knew anything about Jack the Ripper, and their response was just a shrug - yes, they knew the name, but that was all. It was too long ago to be of any interest to them. Their sole interest at that time was in getting out of the East End to better premises elsewhere.

Chava's post just reinforces - for me, at any rate - the concept that the Legend of the Ripper was more or less dead and buried until the late 1950's, when people like Dan Farson re-awakened interest.

Cheers,

Graham

[sdreid]

I first heard about JtR in the late 1940s when there were several versions of the Lodger playing on the radio here in the States. There were Ripper movies made in the 1920s, 30s, 40s and 50s so I don't really see when it was ever a dead topic.

[sdreid]

Hi Graham,

It was Post #13 on the "Is it for real?" thread here where Howard Brown mentions the Old Bailey release later this year. That's all I know about it.

[Doctor X]

"He becomes a myth, a spook story!"

--J. "And Like THAT" D.

[sdreid]

For preservation sake, I guess the Pinchin Street arches could be restored to 1889 form.

[Mitch Rowe]

And the Ripper was.... That's sort of what happened when Inspector Keaton (1870-1970) made that audio tape in 1970.

I was meaning to ask about that one day..I wonder if anyones heard the tape or if there is a way I can get the recording or audio file.
I would like to experiment with variuos modern audio programs to see if I can make out the name.

[sdreid]

Hi Mitch,

I hope someone knows where it is. On the old Crashbook, I asked if anyone thought they could digitize it and clean it up but never heard if it was actually tried.

That's something else that could be lost if it's still on magnetic tape.

[Brenda]

Would someone mind giving me the scoop (or a link) on this tape? That's one JTR story I've not heard about yet.

I remember that AP Wolf wrote on the old boards that he would be taking several days off work to do a complete review of the Old Bailey transcripts when they are released. I am sure he would be a great person to ask for more info. Maybe a new thread could be started.

[sdreid]

Thanks Brenda and the Old Bailey transcript release mystery thickens. If it was in America, I'd wonder if it wasn't Grand Jury stuff which isn't normally part of the public record but I don't think that's the deal in the U.K.

[sdreid]

P.S.

Sam started a thread on the Keaton tape with a link to the old board discussion which I figured was lost forever.

[Chris Scott]

Graham
With regard to the Old Bailey records, I believe the current project is to get them online at http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/.
They would have been in the public domain for years but this does not, of course, mean they are readily and easily available.
Their website says:
1834 to 1913 Proceedings Digitisation Project
From November 1834 to April 1913 the Proceedings continued to be published under the title of The Proceedings of the Central Criminal Court. We have received funding from the Arts and Humanities Research Council to allow us to add all 100,000 trials to this website. This project, directed by Professor Emsley of the Open University, Professor Tim Hitchcock of the University of Hertfordshire and Professor Robert Shoemaker of the University of Sheffield, is now more than half completed. A new website, replacing the current one and including all 200,000 trial reports published between 1674 and 1913, will be launched in the spring of 2008.


Going back to the first post on this thread, there is one item of info I am trying to track down. This relates to the destruction of C of L police records in the blitz. The National Archives site has only this to say:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=388&j=1

The evidence lost is considerable. Virtually all of the City of London Police files were lost in the Blitz during the last world war. What remains of the Metropolitan Police files are available to the public at The National Archives, but the files are sparse, with most remaining material now on microfilm

What I am trying to track down is in which actual building(s) the records were stored. Other groups of records give a little more info. For example a site I visited about World War 1 records had this to say:

The National Archives, Kew
This contains records of both men and units, although many of the men's records were lost in the Blitz in September 1940 when an incendiary bomb destroyed the South London warehouse where they were stored.

but I have been unable to find the actual location where the City of London police archives which were destroyed would have been stored.
If anyone can help I would be very grateful.
Chris

[Graham]

Re: Inspector Keaton.

The A-Z states that the interview with him was taped in 1969. Keaton says that PC's strapped rubber to their boots during the scare, and that it was generally believed by the police that the Ripper attacked his victims from behind. He also stated his own theory that the Ripper was a doctor, a 'Dr Kohn' or a 'Dr Koch', but the name is unintelligible due to the interviewer (whoever he/she was, as the A-Z doesn't supply a name) talking over Keaton.

Interesting, I suppose, but obviously Insp Keaton had no real clue to the identity of the Ripper.

Due acknowledgment to the A-Z.

Cheers,

Graham

[Graham]

Chris Scott,

Thanks for your post and the information. Interested as I am in the Hanratty Case, one of the other posters over on that thread contacted Bedford Criminal Court for a transcript of the Hanratty trial. This ran to about 650000 words and is available only as 'hard copy', having never been digitised or even placed on microfiche. You can read it, of course, but you have to make an appointment and you can't take it away with you.

I guess the above just points up what a mammoth task it would be to place all of the Old Bailey records on easily-accessible format.

Cheers,

Graham

[sdreid]

Thanks Chris. That seems to explain the Old Bailey business.

[Mitch Rowe]

Re: Inspector Keaton.

The A-Z states that the interview with him was taped in 1969. Keaton says that PC's strapped rubber to their boots during the scare, and that it was generally believed by the police that the Ripper attacked his victims from behind. He also stated his own theory that the Ripper was a doctor, a 'Dr Kohn' or a 'Dr Koch', but the name is unintelligible due to the interviewer (whoever he/she was, as the A-Z doesn't supply a name) talking over Keaton.

Interesting, I suppose, but obviously Insp Keaton had no real clue to the identity of the Ripper.

Due acknowledgment to the A-Z.

Cheers,

Graham

He probably didnt. None of them probably did. But still it would be nice to have this tape digitized if it still exists. I wouldnt want People 100 years from now saying: 'Well they could have saved the tape and they were so dumb they didnt. I woould like to hear it myself. But in reality the tape is probably lost too.