Before it's too late

[sdreid]

Hi all,

We can fret about evidence and sites that have been forever lost but is there anything involving the case now that's in danger that we can rescue?

About the only thing that I can think of regards the destroyed City of London files. That is, is there anyone still alive (perhaps a clerk or something) who might have looked at them before 1940 when they were still extant? And, could we find that person and could they remember something they saw in there that would increase our knowledge? They would at least be in their 80s by now if any still exist.

The fiftieth anniversary of the murders was in 1938 and it's hard to believe that such an occasion wouldn't spur someone to sneak a look even if they weren't already interested.

[Hellrider]

very good ideas...where are the guys from London here?

[Doctor X]

Problem is: how good is their memory?

--J.D.

[sdreid]

If they had any really shocking information, I'm sure many would choose not to believe them but a one in a million chance is still better than none in a million.

[Doctor X]

Problem is they would have to prove it.

Here is a test of your memory, sdreid: think of a favorite scene from a movie you have watched many times. It is your favorite movie. You can recite part if not all of it. Take that scene and write down every detail you can recall--where the Knights Who Say "Ni" are standing, how many, is Pamela Anderson standing to the left or the right of the Mutant, et cetera.

Right down those details.

Now pop the DVD in the old player and see how you did.

Now consider people trying to recall a file they may or may not have studied over sixty years ago--or reports of recollections in the past.

That is the problem. Frankly, if there were something "shocking" I would think it would have been revealed by now.

Yours truly,

--J.D.

[Graham]

Stan,

The thing is, how deeply entrenched in human consciousness were the Ripper murders prior to their becoming something of a national pastime in the late 1960's/early 1970's? Yes, there were books written about JtR before WW2, but by and large they were either fiction or semi-fictional. I couldn't honestly say how important the JtR murders were to the official mind after, say 50 years. Probably not at all, to be honest.

There is no doubt that police records (both MEPO and City) were destroyed, but this could have been deliberate - eg, the chucking-out of individual constables' note-books, police-station records and logs, etc. - or accidental -eg, the Blitz. Grey Hunter is the guy to ask regarding this, of course, but I wouldn't mind betting that by, say, 1928, nearly all written records pertaining to JtR had been put on a bonfire as being of no further interest. Which means that the files kept at Scotland Yard would be merely the luckily-surviving rump of the total, and even those were cherry-picked by so-called investigators. Officialdom does rather tend to keep hold of its successes rather than its failures. As an example, the Hanratty Case of 1961, in which I'm also keenly interested, seems to have resulted in the maintaining of very little of the supposedly huge amount of information gathered at the time. In pre-computer days, the keeping of hard copy very soon became a real pain through shortage of space - and that goes for businesses as well as police-forces.

The odds of finding some dusty old ex-clerk from the Yard, who actually looked into the JtR files at some point during his long-ago career, are about zero.

Cheers,

Graham

[sdreid]

So if something is unlikely to yield any result, that's good enough reason not to try it.

Regarding proving anything new in this case, we're mostly way past that stage at this juncture. If you're only going to look at what can be proven in this case then you're pretty much finished when it comes to looking at anything new.

[Doctor X]

So if something is unlikely to yield any result, that's good enough reason not to try it.

No one has made that argument: they have reminded you that recollections of lost evidence--particularly recollections of recollections--are not reliable. Besides, IF someone HAD remembered something, would it not have come up during the time--as Graham suggests--that the Ripper Case became very popular?

Does not mean you cannot look; you just have to be aware of the hurdle.

--J.D.

[sdreid]

Some people don't answer questions until they're asked but that was just the one example I happened to think of. Can anyone think of another? Maybe that's it - I don't know.

[Sam Flynn]

The odds of finding some dusty old ex-clerk from the Yard, who actually looked into the JtR files at some point during his long-ago career, are about zero.

Good news and bad news. They've found him...

[Doctor X]

Why do many take criticism personal?

--J.D.

[Doctor X]

Sam Flynn wins the thread.

--J.D.

[Graham]

Hi Stan,

It's the old scenario - in 1888 the MEPO and Special Branch were more concerned with Irish Fenians than they were with Jack the Ripper. What did the murders of a few East End whores matter when the Irish were planting bombs under Whitehall itself? Recall Littlechild's reminiscences - in them he says that apart from the dynamiters and the Whitechapel Murders, no matter had been of such importance to Scotland Yard as the Great Turf Frauds of 1876. Here we have it - the Fenians and JtR were mere matters of police investigation, yet the Turf Frauds involved the police themselves and resulted in a major reorganisation of the CID. Yes, at the time the Ripper Murders were of some importance, but not to the extent that they took priority over other matters.

I really do think that for at least 70 years the Ripper Murders were the subject of what used to be called Yellow Back Novels, rather than serious academic investigation. I don't know what Scotland Yard policy was - or is - regarding the maintenance of records, but I think it fair to say that along with a stack of information relating to other cases, a lot of Ripper records ended up on the bonfire.

But who knows? Maybe in someone's private family papers there still resides some written evidence germane to the case...a PC's note-book, for example. Or - God, NO!!! - a diary.

Cheers,

Graham

[sdreid]

Sam-That's our man, for sure.

I wonder, if the Ripper did happen to live into old age, if someone might still be alive who knew him and even knew he was JtR. Multiple ifs, I admit but it is actually possible that someone could still be alive who knew the Ripper given some certain circumstances.

Is there a grandpa Jack in the works?

I don't know why some take criticism personal.

[Graham]

Sam!

Holy **** - it's my dad!! Where did you find him????

Graham