Career paths in the Met / City Police

[Wade Aznable]

Good afternoon,
first and foremost, since this is my first thread on casebook, I'd like to thank the site creator(s) and all of the collaborators in this incredible resource for ripperology. I admit that my interest in Jack has been at least 90% fueled by stumbling upon casebook almost by chance.

Second, I apologize in advance for any misunderstandings / lack of clarity in my posts, since english is not my mother language.

Finally, I jump to the very question which prompted me to write my first new thread:
was it possible / usual for younger sons (not firstborne) of aristocracy to work in the London police?
I'm aware of long-standing, top-rank officers being awarded titles for their services, but I'd like to know whether, for instance, a third-born son of an earl could make a career inside the police, and how usual it was.
Just a little curiosity, I guess.

Thank you in advance for your time and attention,
W

[Carol]

Hi Wade Aznable!

I'm afraid I can't help you with your question but I just wanted to welcome you to Casebook and I hope your stay will be both enjoyable and enlightening!

Love
Carol

[Wade Aznable]

Hello Carol,
thank You very much for Your kind welcome!

W

[fido]

Hi, Wade!
It was possible for anyone to work in the Met, but Victorian society was so rigidly class divided that you would not find aristocrats plodding the pavements. Disgraced or undesirable yooung aristocrats might find themselves forced into the army as privates - (especially the Indian army, well out of the way). They would then be, in Kipling's words "gentlemen rankers"; men cut off from the commissioned officers world where they, as upper class, "belonged". But like the "remittance men", despatched to the colonies with a regular allowance from their families so that their drunkenness or persistent impregnating of housemaids or mild insanity didn't cast scandal on the noble home, the very reason that pushed them out of their class and country would also make them ineligible for the police.
Gentlemen (sons of armigerous families, commissioned army officers, or graduates - usually with law degrees) entered the police forces at the Chief Constable up to Commissioner rank: ranks from which the "working class" entrants were debarred until the first quarter of the 20th century, (except that the Met promoted a chief constable from the ranks in the 1880s) and from which no Metropolitan Commissioner was appointed until the 1950s (since when all commissioners have risen from the ranks). Major Smith of the City Police pulls off a mild deception in calling his memoirs From Constable to Commissioner, since he actually entered the City force as Chief Constable: a very different matter from being PC Plod.
As a matter of fact, though, no member of the real aristocracy (as opposed to the minor landed gentry) entered the police at any level, as far as I know, until Lord Byng became commissioner in the 1920s. Unlike Lord Trenchard he was descended from an old family: (that of Admiral Byng who was shot in the 18th century "pour encourager les autres"). George V called him "Bungo"; I'm not aware of any sovereign getting on nickname terms with any other commissioner.
All the best,
Martin F

[Hunter]

Excellent post, Mr. Fido.

This is probably the least understood facet for many students of the Whitechapel Murders; the operating structure of the Met and City Police and what role the social hierarchy played in that structure; and yet, vital to understanding the roles of men like Anderson, Macnaghten and Warren compared to Abberline, Moore and especially Swanson.

This is a topic that is rarely discussed on the boards and I am aware of only one book, of recent times - Evans and Rumbelow's Scotland Yard Investigates that delves into this critical aspect; not as glamorous or self satisfying as playing pin the tail on the suspect I guess.

[Archaic]

Hi Wade, welcome to Casebook!

Hello Mr. Fido. Welcome back to Casebook! I'm enjoying your posts very much.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Wade Aznable]

Martin,
thank You very much for Your detailed (and, as usual, extremely pleasant to read) reply - WOW, I just arrived on casebook and I already get a reply from one of the researchers I admire at most, this is great!

Archaic,
thank You very much for Your warm welcome!

Hunter,
I'll search for the book You suggest, thank You very much!

Best regards,
W

[Phil H]

The original question reminds me of an old generalisation. Among titled families:

1st (eldest surviving) son inherited the title, home and lands;

2nd son joined the Army (or the Royal Navy in some families;

3rd son joined the church.

I don't believe the Met Police were part of the tradition! Though the future Emperor Napoleon III (as Prince Louis Napoleon) claimed to have signed on as a Special Constable during the Chartist disturbances of 1848/49!

Were not Warren (a soldier), Anderson (Irish Office civil servant) and macnaghten all "parachuted" in (to use the modern phrase)? Dolly Williamson (if i recall aright) was the first "ranker" to reach the position of Chief Constable.

I also try to keep in mind the difference between policemen (those trained and experienced in detective or other police work) and the adminsirators/officials such as Anderson and Warren.

Phil

[Wade Aznable]

Phil,
I've been surfing through the message boards and I've read some of Your insights on various matters that I really enjoyed, therefore it's a pleasure to meet You.
The "old generalization" You name was actually one of the thoughts that made me ask the original question, thinking that maybe service in the Army and in the Police force (in case the young aristocrat wasn't in need to be removed because of the various "embarassments" Martin listed in his own reply) were, somewhat, equivalent.

So, as far as I get it, it was somewhat possible for a son of minor nobility (meaning with that gentlemen / armigerous families / lesser landed gentry) or bourgeois family (with a tradition of civil servants in their lineage being a plus) to enter the Police, maybe in higher ranks, but definitely not for the major, oldest aristocracy - am I correct?

Best regards,
W

[Phil H]

Nice to meet you too, Wade. Glad you enjoyed the posts!

I think a bit of understanding of the class system in Victorian Britain is needed here.

Essentially, the top notch aristocrats went into some form of "service" to the state - Armed forces, church or politics (Lords or Commons) Younger sons, even with a courtesy title, like Lord Randolph Churchill (son of a Duke) were eligible for election to the Commons.

The police, as Kate Summerscale makes clear in her marvellous book, T"he Suspicions of Mt Whicher" were essentially middle class - the same sort of people who were "in trade" (shop keepers, hoteliers, some sorts of businessmen) and thus beneath the notice of the social elite.

On the other hand, senior police officials were an OK job for upper middle class men - the sort who might see a career in one of the "professions" such as a barrister or doctor. hence Anderson, Macnaghten were of a different background to Swanson and Munro. They came directly into the Met at senior level, bringing a "generalist" experience and an educated mind to the job rather than specific expertise (although Anderson had a deep background in espionage).

This was similar to the way the civil service in the Uk still recruits to a certain extent. I was selected as a graduate entrant, expected to make senior grade quickly (in about 4 years). I didn't! In those days the emphais was on a generralist administrator - your university education whatever the subject was supposed to give you a flexibility of mind, intellectual insight etc, which would be developed by experience and specific postings.

I believe in days past, in the Royal Navy, you could only go right to the top (First Sea Lord, Commander in Chief) if you were in a seagoing career structure, an engineer or other specialist would only get so far.

Hence, Dolly Williamson (uniformed background) would never have been promoted to Chief Commissioner under any circumstances. Equally, a "gentleman" like Warren would never have considered Williamson's job even if offered.

Someone please correct me if I have got this wrong.

Phil

[Hunter]

He might have considered the position of Chief Constable or even Assistant Chief Constable as Macnaghten did.

[Wade Aznable]

Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been off-line for a few days.
Thank You for the further details: at least here, I can say "case solved"
Sadly, I won't be able to say the same about Jack's identity any soon!