Is it possible the Ripper was a policemen or had connections?

[RipperNoob]

I don't subscribe to the "Royalty had the Prostitutes murdered" theory but I do wonder if the failure to catch him wasn't a matter of a master escape artist or police ineptitute, but perhaps corruption. If the Ripper had indeed turned to be have been a policemen, or an ex-policemen, or even someone with connections to the police or local officials--How would that have looked in Victorian era Britain?

I would imagine that cover ups of crimes were much easier in the 1800s than they are today, with no phones, no internet, no real video cameras and only primitive still cameras.

If he was a policemen, or ex-policemen, or something along those lines, or a well to do man who came from an influential family, it could explain why many of the files went missing, along with the failure to catch him.

Being a policemen or former policemen could lend credence as to how the Ripper knew the area so well, and was able to escape from it so easily, and evade the police--He was one, either then or previously. And certainly, I imagine, in 1888 the police would never dream of investigating one of their own--Retired, fired, active or not. I imagine the thought was simply unthinkable and even if there was someone who was "interesting", if he was a cop, they wouldn't have looked further into him.

Other alternatives I can think of--as far as the Ripper's profession--could be a stage coach driver (I don't know if they had coach equivalents of taxi drivers back then), local workman with some butcher experience, perhaps a former college student or something who thought of his "work" as "art", or perhaps a former or current postman.

[Heinrich]

...
I do wonder if the failure to catch him wasn't a matter of a master escape artist or police ineptitute, but perhaps corruption.

Do not rush to dismiss police ineptitude, RipperNoob. Failure to protect citizens or catch the killers frustrated the people of London at the time and even the Queen criticized the police record. The pressure was on to make an arrest and failure to do so suggests incompetence rather than a conspiracy to protect one of their own at the price of losing reputation any further.

... local workman with some butcher experience, ...

Most likely a local man who might have worked around knives such as Joseph Barnett.

[Rubyretro]

Most likely a local man who might have worked around knives such as Joseph Barnett.

[/QUOTE]

If you think about it, nearly all working men probably carried knives (as they
did in France when I arrived here, some years ago now).

For starters, they wouldn't have had pre-made sarnies etc for lunch, but
hunks of bread, meat, cheese etc to cut off.

They would need to cut string, thin rope (if knots wouldn't undo), cloth, cardboard etc. and be able to deal with various odd jobs
(I just can't imagine a working man standing about with his hands in his pockets, looking lost, and saying "errr excuse me, I can't do the job because I can't open the crate/ undo that parcel of stuff...can anyone lend me a knife ?".)

[Phil H]

Like many others, I suppose, I have ruminated on the issue of could a policeman have dunnit!

It is an intriguing possibility - the absence of anyone leaving the scene in Buck's Row (Cross/Lechmere and Paul aside) despite frequent police patrols; the failure to see anyone in Mitre Square notwithstanding tight timescales; the enigma of the findingof the GSG and apron portion.

Add to that the question of whether Eddoes met her killer by arrangement; the odd reonance between the written record of her name at the police station (nothing) and the repeated use of the word in the GSG - could a copper have trailed her on release and done her in in the Sqaure?

All interesting ways of passing the time - but, on balance, I attach no probability to any of them.

Phil

[TomTomKent]

As far as idle speculation goes, this is no better or worse than many. But I disagree with some of the reasoning: A policeman who would be "invisible" at the crime scene would be a constable or other uniformed man, so is unlikely to be able to make files dissapear. If he was high enough to have influence that would have made him far too conspicuous. A beat constable who kept sniffing around the investigation would draw too much attention.

I also don't buy the idea that police would not look too carefully at one of their own. For somebody taking a bribe? It is concievable, for the Ripper? Really?

As for the equivalent of taxicabs, there is a reason they are still licensed as hansom cabs. Think Sherlock Holmes, there were small cabs that offered much the same service as a modern taxi.

[Fleetwood Mac]

As far as idle speculation goes, this is no better or worse than many. But I disagree with some of the reasoning: A policeman who would be "invisible" at the crime scene would be a constable or other uniformed man, so is unlikely to be able to make files dissapear. If he was high enough to have influence that would have made him far too conspicuous. A beat constable who kept sniffing around the investigation would draw too much attention.

I also don't buy the idea that police would not look too carefully at one of their own. For somebody taking a bribe? It is concievable, for the Ripper? Really?

As for the equivalent of taxicabs, there is a reason they are still licensed as hansom cabs. Think Sherlock Holmes, there were small cabs that offered much the same service as a modern taxi.

Lack of anything remotely approaching evidence means non starter.

Best I can see is Watkins and Morris who do a very strange turn at the inquest providing answers that tally to questions not asked at. But, I'd say it's more likely Watkins was sheltering in doors from the rain with a cup of tea when he was supposed to be on his beat.

[Monty]

I'm curious,

Has anyone considered the logistics?

Nichols found in J divisions patch.

Chapman, Stride and Eddowes on Hs.

Eddowes in the City.

All beats were accounted for and Beat Sergeants patrolled with regularity.

So how would a Police Jack have opperated?

Fleetwood,

You are not alone with your 'Watkins having a brew with Morris' theory. Don Rumbelow hints at the same.

Problem is Lewande. If he did see Eddowes, Watkins having a brew makes no odds as he was either in Kearley and Tonges or out on his beat....not in Mitre Square.

Monty

[Fleetwood Mac]

I'm curious,

Fleetwood,

You are not alone with your 'Watkins having a brew with Morris' theory. Don Rumbelow hints at the same.

Monty,

I just found the following odd:

George James Morris

Before being called I had no occasion to go into the square. I did not go there between one and two o'clock; of that I am certain. There was nothing unusual in my door being open and my being at work at so late an hour. I had not seen Watkins before during the night. I do not think my door had been ajar more than two or three minutes when he knocked.

Edward Watkin

No. The door of the warehouse to which I went was ajar, because the watchman was working about. It was no unusual thing for the door to be ajar at that hour of the morning.

They're at great pains to explain the door being ajar, when really no one questioned them on it.

[Abby Normal]

Monty,

I just found the following odd:

George James Morris

Before being called I had no occasion to go into the square. I did not go there between one and two o'clock; of that I am certain. There was nothing unusual in my door being open and my being at work at so late an hour. I had not seen Watkins before during the night. I do not think my door had been ajar more than two or three minutes when he knocked.

Edward Watkin

No. The door of the warehouse to which I went was ajar, because the watchman was working about. It was no unusual thing for the door to be ajar at that hour of the morning.

They're at great pains to explain the door being ajar, when really no one questioned them on it.

Hi Fleetwood
Very interesting. Perhaps Watkin suggested that they leave the door ajar so he could hear anything as they shared a drink inside.

[Monty]

Hmmmm, I do see your point Fleetwood.

I'm very wary of micro analysing. Whilst I agree details should be looked at closely, things can grow from these acorns which may hinder.

My take is that you have a PC and an Ex-PC being very detailed in their statements. It would have been the norm for them to express the information with such detail.

If Morris hadn't have had such experience, and had not come from a police background, then yes, my alarm bells would be ringing.

Point of interest. It was not unusual for Bobbies to partake in a brew with Nightwatchmen. In some cases it was encouraged as the Nightwatchman was the PCs eyes and ears when he was away elsewhere on his beat.

Monty

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hmmmm, I do see your point Fleetwood.

I'm very wary of micro analysing. Whilst I agree details should be looked at closely, things can grow from these acorns which may hinder.

My take is that you have a PC and an Ex-PC being very detailed in their statements. It would have been the norm for them to express the information with such detail.

If Morris hadn't have had such experience, and had not come from a police background, then yes, my alarm bells would be ringing.

Point of interest. It was not unusual for Bobbies to partake in a brew with Nightwatchmen. In some cases it was encouraged as the Nightwatchman was the PCs eyes and ears when he was away elsewhere on his beat.

Monty

Yeah, it's easy enough to move towards seeing that which one wants to see.

Having said that, I don't really have a favoured suspect, so no real horse in the race.

Simply, found the statements odd, but then plenty of people say things that I wouldn't say!

[mariab]

I'm curious, Has anyone considered the logistics?
Nichols found in J divisions patch.
Chapman, Stride and Eddowes on Hs.
Eddowes in the City.
All beats were accounted for and Beat Sergeants patrolled with regularity.
So how would a Police Jack have opperated?

Makes total sense (duh!) what Monty says here about the impossibility of an imaginary policeman having managed to be active in all 3 divisions unnoticed. Pertaining to this, might I ask if PCs were allowed 1 evening per week off duty – or more?
On the other side, it's interesting that there is already one suspect who was a member of the WVC. I'm very interested in conducting a bit of research on some aspects relevant to the WVC, and Defenseless Whitechapel is item nr. 2 on my reading list.

Problem is Lewande. If he did see Eddowes, Watkins having a brew makes no odds as he was either in Kearley and Tonges or out on his beat....not in Mitre Square.

I don't understand this, unless it refers to going along with PC Watkins as the hypothetical killer (sic), just for argument's sake, following the implication in the title of this thread. (Lawende saws Eddowes with a man around 00.35 a.m., and PC Watkins found her dead around 00.45 a.m..)