Mitre Square

[Hannibal Hayes]

A couple of weeks ago I went on a Ripper Tour starting at Tower Hill. It was a decent tour & a couple of things struck me as being odd.

Nothing of importance but all the murders were committed within a short distance of a school (not sure how many schools were around in 1888).

There is a plaque on the wall in Hanbury Street which says some like ‘Annie Chapman Murdered here’ & I think includes her date of birth & death. My question is: who paid or pays for the plaque? Is it of any significance or just there as a 'prop' for the tours?

Also when we went to Mitre Square, the tour guide pointed out roughly where Eddowes was killed and said that someone was sitting at the other end of the square for hours smoking his pipe but he didn’t hear or see anything.

Now Mitre Square back in 1888 would have been about 30 feet by 40 feet (roughly) and it would have been impossible to sit there and not to have heard anything, even if it was really dark. I hadn’t heard this story before but can only conclude that the person was mistaken or blatantly lying and was not there.

[lynn cates]

Mitre sq

Hello Hannibal. Try this.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4871

Cheers.
LC

[ChrisGeorge]

A couple of weeks ago I went on a Ripper Tour starting at Tower Hill. It was a decent tour & a couple of things struck me as being odd.

Nothing of importance but all the murders were committed within a short distance of a school (not sure how many schools were around in 1888). . . .

Hi Hannibal

Welcome to the site. There were a number of Board Schools throughout the poorer areas of London, as there were in other poor, urban areas of Britain. There was also the Jews Free School, and of course a number of synagogues scattered throughout the East End, some close to the murder sites. See my recent blog posting on the associations of the murders with the Jews. I am not sure we should read too much into these geographical coincidences. Another possible coincidence is that there were a number of Kearley and Tonge tea warehouses throughout the East End, one being in Mitre Square and another near Bucks Row.

All the best

Chris

[John Bennett]

There is a plaque on the wall in Hanbury Street which says some like ‘Annie Chapman Murdered here’ & I think includes her date of birth & death. My question is: who paid or pays for the plaque? Is it of any significance or just there as a 'prop' for the tours?

You mean this. Note there are others too!



As to who is responsible, I cannot say. They are certainly not official. Things like this pop up occasionally (like the stencil street signs from a few years back). Probably local artists or something similar. The Catherine Eddowes one disappeared about a week or so ago.

Also when we went to Mitre Square, the tour guide pointed out roughly where Eddowes was killed and said that someone was sitting at the other end of the square for hours smoking his pipe but he didn’t hear or see anything.

I heard this too as I passed a tour in the Square about 2 weeks ago. Sounds like a garbled version of different eye-witness statements - including pipeman from Berner Street.

JB

[Monty]

Hannibal,

I think the tour guide is referring to the Kearley & Tonge Nightwatchman Morris spent every night outside the offices (opposite the murder site) smoking his pipe except for one night a week. Yep, you guessed it, it was the night (or farther Sunday morning) when his routine dictated he did other duties at that time.

If you see a man smoking his pipe in Mitre Square today, don't worry. Its just me, as John will testify.....and I see everything.

As for the plaques. The first I noted was Chapmans (actually it was pointed out to me) in May. I then went to Mitre Square minutes later and Eddowes wasn't there. However it was the the next morning, which was Sunday. I notice Nichols in June when I was with Sister Hyde, Andrew Firth (who actually pointed it out) and Rob Clack.

Monty

m

[bigjon]

Monty:

Was it you I was with who was surprised at how good quality the plaques were (expecting them to be made out of card or something) and how firmly they were stuck on?

[Andrew Firth]

I certainly expressed surprise when I saw the one in Durward Street; they looked like they were made out of ceramic or plaster. Not sure how they were fixed to the walls though.

Andrew

[GregBaron]

That's rather rude isn't it?

I am jealous of you people who can troll such sites as Mitre Square with impunity, pipe smoker’s and ne’er-do-well’s that you obviously are. I was going to suggest that our Jack’s luck was increasingly moving toward cleverness with his apparent knowledge of the police beats and the pipe smoking habits of the aforementioned Morris. But I suppose another way to look at it is - if things weren’t right the two had to find another alcove for it’s a very convenient fact that illicit fornication and murder are best enacted in private. It makes one wonder how many times our JTR had to abandon ship or do the deed in order to keep the charade from crumbling. I also wonder how often people indulging in “immoral purposes” were happened upon by pedestrians?

Greg

[Monty]

Andrew and Jon,

Its was Jon, I say they are ceramic and adhered strongly to the wall.

Whoever has done them has put some effort into it.

Greg,

I suspect Eddowes knew more about Morris and his habits than Jack did.

Monty

[GregBaron]

They knew more than he...

I suspect Eddowes knew more about Morris and his habits than Jack did.

Good point Monty.......aiding and abetting their own murder with local knowledge..........a terrible irony there...


Greg

[louisa]

It's interesting to take a tour of the Spitalfields area using Google Maps Street View.

I was amazed at how many of the original buildings still remain.

[The Grave Maurice]

It is interesting, isn't it. When I first started studying this subject, the published maps were not very good, and often inaccurate. It took me ages to get a feel for the layout of the area. In fact, I never did understand it until I actually went there. It's so much easier now. Thanks, Google.

[kensei]

My strongest memory of Mitre Square, having been there three times, twice on tours and once by myself- In Sept. of 2008 while shooting video there about mid-day I was approached and detained by a pair of police officers, one male and one female, who thoroughly but politely enough questioned and searched me under the "terrorism act" because I was filming in proximity to security cameras. I said, "Aren't there security cameras everywhere in London?" and they admitted, "Well, yes." They wanted to see every card in my wallet, every item in my little tote bag, and rewound my video footage to see what I'd been filming all morning. While they were questioning me the very loud sound of one or two helicopters suddenly descended over the area and they both looked up and went, "Huh, dunno what that's about." Finally convinced them I was a fairly ignorant tourist and Ripper fanatic, and before they left and said I was free to continue filming the male cop said, "The reason we do this is because last year, not half a mile from here, we had a 30-foot hole blown in the street."

Quite the experience, combined with the emotional impact of standing at Catherine Eddowes' murder site. One question- did the '07 subway bombings really penetrate to street level? What that cop said was the only time I've heard that.

[Monty]

Kensei,

I suspect they were referring to ther St Marys Axe bombing not far away during the 90s which caused a massive crater.

Yes, secruity is strict. You cannot take photos of police stations, no matter how pretty they are. And try and whip yer camera out at Bevis Marks synagogue without the guards pouncing.

Monty

[kensei]

No Monty, I know they were referring to the 2007 bombings because I engaged them in conversation about it and told them I knew all about it and that in fact I was planning on my visit to go to the place where the bus was blown up, and they said, "Ah, Tavistock Square?" The comment about a hole in the street struck me because every time I've descended into London's underground those escalators just went down and down and down, and I thought, geez, how powerful could that bomb have been? But I guess we're straying off topic now.