Did anyone really see the Ripper?

[Ashkenaz]

Here again is Ada Wilsons description of the man who tried to kill her.


"On March 28, 1888, while home alone at 19 Maidman Street, Wilson answered a knock at the door to find a man of about 30 years of age, 5ft 6ins in height, with a sunburnt face and a fair moustache. He was wearing a dark coat, light trousers and a wideawake hat. The man forced his way into the room and demanded money, and when she refused he stabbed her twice in the throat and ran, leaving her for dead. It is reported that nearby neighbours almost captured the man, but he found his escape."

If this is a description of jtr, we must ask ourselves how jtr acquired a sunburned face in March.

Given that many believe him to have been a local working class guy.The only thing I can think of is that he was a foundary worker. It might have been unusually sunny of course, but not too likely in England during March.

Does anyone know if there was a foundary in the East End at this time.

Just a thought

[Wickerman]

Well I guess the fair moustache rules out her describing a negro?


Shaving, using the old method, can often give the skin a reddish tint, or perhaps he had rosacea?

Jon

[Bob Hinton]

Greetings.

The answer is of course yes - thousands of people saw him - they just didn't realise he was a wanted man.

The problem is ongoing. I always shudder when I hear police appeal for anyone seeing anything suspicious to come forward. People then sift through their memories discarding anything they do not consider as suspicious.

What police should be doing is to ask if anyone saw anything and let them sift through the information. Remember Father Browns Postman!

[Ashkenaz]

Shaving, using the old method, can often give the skin a reddish tint, or perhaps he had rosacea?

Jon

I imagine the sunburn was all over his forehead as well as his cheeks. He would not of course have shaved his forehead. I think the lady also knew sunburn when she saw it.

[GregBaron]

Blotchy nose...

Hi all,

Maybe the red faced attacker had 'whiskey-face' something heavy drinkers especially of Irish variety are prone to. Or maybe he's the sailor man that some have insinuated.

Of course people saw the ripper what I meant was did the major witnesses see him.............like Lawende, Mrs. Long, Schwartz and PC Smith.........I think all of them could have got the wrong guy but Lawende is the hardest to dismiss...

Nobody has answered how Druitt could be said to be of fair mustache..........or is this a mistake of lighting again....

Greg

[Ashkenaz]

Hi all,

Maybe the red faced attacker had 'whiskey-face' something heavy drinkers especially of Irish variety are prone to. Or maybe he's the sailor man that some have insinuated.

Greg

I think the lady would have known sunburn from signs of heavy drinking.

Being a sailor would also explain the sunburn, but only if he had recently been in the tropics, for of course there was as little sun in London in March as most of Northern Europe.

I think at sailing speed his sunburn would have worn off before he got back to Blighty. I believe he was not a sailor. He was a local working class man.

If Ada Wilson's attacker was the ripper, which I suspect, how did he acquire a sunburned face in March? I can only think he was a foundary worker

[GregBaron]

Flush faced Irishman...

Not a bad theory Ashkenaz but one needn't be in the tropics to get a sunburn or windburn............UVA rays pentrate cloud cover and fair skinned persons can get quite red faced easily without being in the Congo...........not to say I discount your theory of a foundry worker but I'm of half Irish ancestry myself and trust me.........I can get red in the most uneventful of climactic circumstances...........add a little exertion like attacking and knifing an innocent woman and a red face doesn't require some imaginative explanation.....some people are pretty red faced just as some are ginger haired...............we probably shouldn't look too much into that...............plus we're relying on a woman's description who may have been seeing red for some other reason............


Greg

[Ashkenaz]

Hi Greg

I have lived in England for 55 years and have never had sunburn in March. I dont recall ever seeing anyone with sunburn in March either. May to August yes.

Now consider Lawende's description of the man he saw talking to Eddowes shortly before her murder :

"A man aged 30, height 5'7, or 8, complexion fair, moustache fair, medium build.

The description is almost identical to that of the man who tried to kill Ada Williams. I am convinced that these descriptions are of the same man. On this latter occasion, he has no sunburned face. Perhaps a change of job ?

But if this is our man, he was possibly a foundary worker at the date of the Williams assault.

[Ashkenaz]

.UVA rays pentrate cloud cover and fair skinned persons can get quite red faced easily

Yes UV light penetrates the clouds, but a little more is required for sunburn. The tilting of the earth in its yearly cycle is of importance. At midwinter the angle of attack is such that the ozone layer prevents much penetration of UV, whereas at midsummer the opposite occurs, as the passage of UV is not at let us say a 45 degree angle, but much closer to 90 degrees, hence more of it gets through. I wish I was better at explaining it. For the same reason, sunshine is less harmful at sunrise and sunset, and most harmful at midday.

.plus we're relying on a woman's description who may have been seeing red for some other reason............
Greg

Her description is likely to be very accurate. I don't think I would ever forget the face of someone trying to kill me.

[GregBaron]

Red or Blotchy?

Hi Ashkenaz,

I'll take your word for it on the British red face data. As an American I certainly can't refute it. I like your hypothesis about Lawende's man and Ada Williams' man being one and the same. I'm not sure it fits BS man though or the respectable gentleman spotted by PC Smith.........certainly not Mrs. Long's man but that one may have occurred far after the fact......does this bring Blotchy back into the picture? Can blotchy not mean a bubbly red face.........?


Greg

[Ashkenaz]

Hi Ashkenaz,

I'll take your word for it on the British red face data. As an American I certainly can't refute it. I like your hypothesis about Lawende's man and Ada Williams' man being one and the same. I'm not sure it fits BS man though or the respectable gentleman spotted by PC Smith.........certainly not Mrs. Long's man but that one may have occurred far after the fact......does this bring Blotchy back into the picture? Can blotchy not mean a bubbly red face.........?


Greg

Hi Greg. Thanks. I believe these descriptions are of the same man. We cannot conclude of course that this was the ripper, only than "fair moustache" was capable of extreme violence to Ada, and was speaking to Kate immediately before her death.

Neither can we conclude that he worked alone. There may as some think, have been a gang, or perhaps, copy cat murderers But I think this is our man, and that he worked alone, and that the five canonical murders were his, and that maybe, we could add Martha Tabram, and perhaps others to that list.

He was an itinerant worker. Sometime hop picker, sometime slaughter man, sometime porter, whatever came his way. He had few interpersonal skills and was likely in and out of jobs due to his temper or whatever.

I am guessing that at the time of the attack on Ada he was a foundry worker
There will not have been many in that area, possibly just one. It may yet be possible to get a list of employees from this time. Then we need only run through these names for arrests and terms of imprisonment, He will be in here as he will have previous.

[GregBaron]

Unknown assailant...

I don't buy the gang theory either Ashkenaz but can anything really be ruled out? I was thinking the same thing about finding foundry workers from that time....that could be interesting....wouldn't be surprised about the job hopping either..............but if this is our man he isn't on the suspect list in my opinion and I tend to think he's the unknown man from Whitechapel............one wonders how an ordinary low life got away with it......I think Stewart Evans said it best on one of those tv documentaries............he said something like we don't know if he was clever but he undoubtedly possessed an animal cunning...........I think most will agree with that....perhaps research will yet reveal our red faced fair mustachioed predator.......


Greg

[Colin Roberts]

If this is a description of jtr, we must ask ourselves how jtr acquired a sunburned face in March.

Given that many believe him to have been a local working class guy.The only thing I can think of is that he was a foundary worker. It might have been unusually sunny of course, but not too likely in England during March.

Does anyone know if there was a foundary in the East End at this time.

I am guessing that at the time of the attack on Ada he was a foundry worker
There will not have been many in that area, possibly just one. It may yet be possible to get a list of employees from this time. Then we need only run through these names for arrests and terms of imprisonment, He will be in here as he will have previous.

There was, of course, the Whitechapel Bell Foundry, on Whitechapel Road.

Also, in accordance with the 1870's series and 1890's series of the Ordnance Survey, there was an "Iron Foundry" situated on the west side of Osborn Street, between Wentworth Street and Whitechapel High Street.

Additionally, in accordance with the 1870's series of the Ordnance Survey, there was an "Iron Foundry" situated on the south side of Whitechapel High Street, between Mansell Street and Leman Street; an "Iron Foundry" situated on the north side of Church Street, Hamlet of Mile End New Town, which later became the eastern 'third' of Hanbury Street; and an "Iron Foundry" situated on the west side of New Street, Hamlet of Mile End Old Town, which later became Yalford Street, just opposite and slightly north of one of Aaron Kosminski's possible 1888 residences.

Whether any of these three facilities continued to function as an "Iron Foundry", in 1888, cannot be gleaned from the 1890's series of the Ordnance Survey.

[Wickerman]

With respect to the attack on Ada Wilson. Ada's neighbour spoke to the press and provided the reporter with a little more info than what we read from Ada.

Mrs Bierman said she heard terrible screams and ran down the stairs to see Wilson, partially dressed, grasping at her throat, while a young man rush out the front door.
This does not quite align with the story Wilson told, and Bierman's version might suggest Wilson was 'entertaining', she might have been a prostitute.

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/eastern_post/easternpost880331.html

Regards, Jon S.

[Ashkenaz]

With respect to the attack on Ada Wilson. Ada's neighbour spoke to the press and provided the reporter with a little more info than what we read from Ada.

Mrs Bierman said she heard terrible screams and ran down the stairs to see Wilson, partially dressed, grasping at her throat, while a young man rush out the front door.
This does not quite align with the story Wilson told, and Bierman's version might suggest Wilson was 'entertaining', she might have been a prostitute.

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/eastern_post/easternpost880331.html

Regards, Jon S.

From the link given "I noticed a young fair man rush to the front door!

No mention of the sunburn. Best explained I suppose, by her viewing him from behind, as he made his dash for the front door.