Beheading and Butchers

[Steven Russell]

This rather obvious point struck me today after hearing about the appalling case of Jennifer Mills-Westley, a 60 year-old British lady who was attacked and beheaded in a Tenerife supermarket. The killer, who has a history of mental illness and religious mania, carried out the crime with a kitchen knife.

So how hard is it to cut someone's head off? I have read that the Ripper tried and failed to do this more than once. If this is true (and to my mind that's a pretty big "if") then surely this rules out his being a butcher who would, one assumes, have little difficulty in this area.

If Jack was a butcher, it makes sense that he did not try to behead any of his victims as he would have easily had the skill to do so.

So really I am making two points here: If Jack tried to behead his victims he cannot have been a butcher (since he failed), or no such attempts were made - which does not rule out butchers.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[The Grave Maurice]

You may remember that there was an incident about three years ago in which a guy decapitated a fellow passenger in a Greyhound bus in Manitoba. Not that I have any personal experience but, apparently, if you want to cut someone's head off, it isn't all that difficult.

JtR was, in my opinion, simply an enthusiastic throat cutter. The marks to the spinal column were a result of that enthusiasm, not an attempt at decapitation. I don't think they tell us anything about whether or not he was a butcher.

[TomTomKent]

Modern mass murderers also have the benifit of knives made from superior alloys, which may makea difference. We must alsotake into account the kind of blade. "Kitchen knife" covers a variety of blades, some with enough body to easily slice through bone, others less so. With out checking my notes for which murder wasassumed to use which knife all I can say is along thin bayonette or pocket knife would not do it, but a different blade may have.

As Mr Maurice rightly states having the right tool does mean he also had the intention.

[kensei]

A sword, of course, can do the job in an instant in trained hands (though there is an account of Night Stalker Richard Ramirez trying to decapitate one of his male victims with one swing of a machete and being quite perplexed when it didn't work). As for knives, one would think that it would take a bit more time- until we come to the case of Yosemite Park killer Cary Anthony Stayner in 1999, who was said to have decapitated his third victim Joie Ruth Armstrong (who was bound but struggling) with "one swift stroke" using a sturdy hunting knife. Presumably, great sharpness and great (or maniacal) strength would be important factors.

[Sally]

No intention

JtR was, in my opinion, simply an enthusiastic throat cutter. The marks to the spinal column were a result of that enthusiasm, not an attempt at decapitation

I agree. I don't think there was any intention by JTR to behead his victims. I think if that had been his desire, he could have accomplished it without too much trouble.

Perhaps he wasn't interested in heads as trophies (there would be certain practical difficulties presented by carrying the odd head about with you too, I should imagine). If he had wanted to behead his victims, he would have had ample opporunity to succeed in Kelly's room, where he had plenty of time to practice.

As I don't think JTR failed to decapitate his victims, I don't think there is any indication as to whether he was a butcher or not in the fact that they kept their heads (more or less).

But, a butcher would have been accustomed to cutting quite deep if he was slaughtering an animal - for the same reasons as JTR cut deep, presumably - to bring about swift death so that butchery could commence with the optimum convenience. I have wondered before whether JTR was a butcher and simply dealt with his victims as he would an animal.

[Bob Hinton]

Decapitation

Decapitation

The head is held to the body by a collection of flesh, sinews and muscles. The spinal column is merely a conduit for a mass of nerves connecting the brain to the rest of the body.

Once you have cut all the way round the neck, severing all the tissue etc, a swift twist and upward tug will detach the head.

The case I am writing about at the moment concerns a man who attacked his girlfriend with a bill hook. The cuts to the neck were so severe that they parted the spinal column, the head only remaining attached by a strip of skin on the opposite side to the cuts.

In explosions the blast usually strip off all the poorly attached bits and pieces, usually legs, arms and heads.

[ChrisGeorge]

So how hard is it to cut someone's head off? I have read that the Ripper tried and failed to do this more than once. If this is true (and to my mind that's a pretty big "if") then surely this rules out his being a butcher who would, one assumes, have little difficulty in this area.

Hi Steve

I think you are thinking of the fact that the Diary claims that James Maybrick allegedly tried to remove the head of his victims, rather than there was evidence that the Ripper tried to do it.

Chris

[Steven Russell]

Helo, Chris,
No, I'm not thinking of the diary. I have definitely read elsewhere that attempts appeared to have been made to sever the heads of more than one victim. Can't remember off the top of my head if this was a Victorian idea or one put forward by modern writers based on the post mortems.

In any case, I tend to agree with Maurice that the Ripper was not interested in decapitating his victims. Sally makes a good point too re. the Kelly case.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Steve

Certainly in the canonical five murders, there was the reported signature very deep neck cut, clear back to the vertebrae, which might have led modern commentators or even some of the doctors of the day to believe that head removal was attempted. Although, on the other hand, as we have been discussing, if he had really wanted to remove the head, having cut that deeply, one would think a bit more cutting would have accomplished the deed. And by the way, I should think this is also a very good reason to think that the Ripper and the torso murderer of the day was not one and the same person.

Chris

[Bob Hinton]

Ripper and decapitation

Mind you the belief that the Ripper actually decapitated some of his victims is quite widespread.

I remember seeing an interview with the FBI profiler Robert Ressler where he stated quite categorically the the FBI profile produced on the Ripper used the fact that he decapitated several of his victims to arrive at the conclusions they did.

Which is one reason I never gave much credence to the FBI profile.

[Phil H]

Didn't one contemporary commentator suggest that the scarf around Chapman's neck had been put there by "Jack" to hold her head on!

I seem to recall that in the context of the same murder there were conjectures that"Jack" had deliberately attempted to decapitate his victim.

If it needs to be said, I don't hold to either view and neither is in my view tenable.

Phil

[Steven Russell]

Bagster-Phillips.

From Mr. Bagster-Phillips at the Chapman inquest: "... The muscular structures appeared as though an attempt had been made to separate the bones of the neck..."

Best wishes,
Steve.

[ChrisGeorge]

From Mr. Bagster-Phillips at the Chapman inquest: "... The muscular structures appeared as though an attempt had been made to separate the bones of the neck..."

Best wishes,
Steve.

Thanks, Steve, for that quote.

Chris

[Errata]

Well, not to get too technical here, but while it is perfectly possible to cut off a head, even with a knife, the secret is to start with a strong blow to the back of the neck. Thats why they behead people on their knees leaning forward. It increases the space between the cervical vertebrae.

The exception to this would be a butcher, and only through accident. The strength required to cut a cow's throat in enormous. Transfer the same amount of force (which would be second nature in any kind of stress situation) to a human neck and it would be quite easy to and probably habitual to disjoint the cervical vertebra. Or even simply get lucky due to placement and cut through the disc.

The problem is, a butcher would not need two strokes to cut a throat to the bone. A butcher would not get hung up on the trachea, and a butcher would know how to decapitate if that were his goal. Now tools make the man in this sort of scenario, but a butcher would easily have access to the appropriate tools for the job. Which a seven inch double edged blade (if I recall correctly) is not.

I don't think he was a butcher. On the other hand, if you look at rigging knives and rope knives, they seem to fit the bill. So he may well have been a sailor.

[Steven Russell]

Thanks, Steve, for that quote.

Chris

You're welcome.

Steve.