Mile End Vigilance Committee

[The Grave Maurice]

We are all learning as we proceed.

I guess that's true of you guys. Me, I'm struggling to retain the scraps of knowledge that I already have.

[mariab]

Hey, Monty's back! (Even if briefly.) Just so you know, we totally conspired for this, and you've bitten.

Quote Tom Wescott:
While I'm clearly not the expert on the WVC that Monty is, I believe I can state that the WVC did not use the Berner Street club as a 'meeting place', but instead would have taken the stage to speak to the attendees about becoming patrolmen for the WVC.
No worries, Monty, we might eventually figure it out, as there are also plans for translating a few issues of Der Arbeter Fraint. (Which will take forever.)

[Monty]

Hi Maria,

While I'm clearly not the expert on the WVC that Monty is, I believe I can state that the WVC did not use the Berner Street club as a 'meeting place', but instead would have taken the stage to speak to the attendees about becoming patrolmen for the WVC. As Monty could no doubt confirm, the Berner Street club would often hold open air speeches on the Mile End Road and lead marches that would terminate there. This is where Joseph Aarons' pub was located. Aarons would be quoted in anarchist newspapers, suggesting sympathy with the cause. All this and the fact that their respective premises were only a mile apart suggests the top brass of the IWEC and the WVC were well-known to each other.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Ego Thomas.....ego.

Its slipping Son.

Whilst Dons word do flatter, Im afraid that I have to point out that there is no expert on any aspect within this field.

We are all learning as we proceed.

Monty

[Monty]

Yes, of course there is. And pub owners were not considered prominent or respectable citizens, which is why Lusk was the 'president' and Aarons only the 'treasurer'. That and Lusk was a talented writer, which was necessary for all the plea letters being written.

Monty's essay 'Defenceless Whitechapel', which covers not only the WVC but the other committees around that time is a great read and quite valuable for sources not available elsewhere. But his write-up on what occurred after Lusk received the kidney/letter is all wrong. Just an FYI since this might be a primary source for your work.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

In what way?

Monty

[mariab]

Tom, do you recall in which Rip did Monty's essay Defenseless Whitechapel come out? Was it an electronic issue?
Also, where from do we know that Lusk was a talented writer?

[Tom_Wescott]

Is there basis for the Lusk postcard, letter and kidney being a hoax and if so being perpetrated by Aarons?

Yes, of course there is. And pub owners were not considered prominent or respectable citizens, which is why Lusk was the 'president' and Aarons only the 'treasurer'. That and Lusk was a talented writer, which was necessary for all the plea letters being written.

Monty's essay 'Defenceless Whitechapel', which covers not only the WVC but the other committees around that time is a great read and quite valuable for sources not available elsewhere. But his write-up on what occurred after Lusk received the kidney/letter is all wrong. Just an FYI since this might be a primary source for your work.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Is there basis for the Lusk postcard, letter and kidney being a hoax and if so being perpetrated by Aarons?

The “box of toys“ postcard has not survived. There is circumstantial evidence which allows to suspect that Aarons and the criminally inclined Le Grand could have orchestrated the Lusk letter/kidney as a hoax, although Joseph Aarons needs more researching. What's suspicious is also that they immediately run to The Evening News with the kidney, instead of the police. Incidentally, The Evening News was the newspaper where Le Grand had planted his stories about Packer's (false) testimony, the grapestalk supposedly collected by Le Grand after Stride's murder, and the Batty Street Lodger. (Actually the Batty Street Lodger was first mentioned in The Northern Eastern Gazette, but also in The Evening News.)

And Monty, I WILL be picking your brain and may send you the rough of the chapter on Lusk if that is alright.

Might I inquire what kind of chapter? Are you writing a book?
At least it's cool that Monty can be reached per PM.

[YankeeSergeant]

Aarons

I know, Tom. I just said “sidekick“ instead of Le Grand as I didn't know if you wanted me to mention all of this on the boards yet...


Completely agree. It was a very civic idea which became a financial venture. And, as criminals were involved (Le Grand and his sidekicks), it degenerated into deception.

Didn't Aarons end up as landlord for another pub later on? Is there basis for the Lusk postcard, letter and kidney being a hoax and if so being perpetrated by Aarons? I would thnik that being somewhat prominant in the area as a landlord of a pub that he would keep a low profile especially as the Jewish community was worried about anti-Semitic riots and such. And Monty, I WILL be picking your brain and may send you the rough of the chapter on Lusk if that is alright.

[mariab]

Le Grand was certainly not a 'sidekick' of Aarons. Not to be nitpicky, but...

I know, Tom. I just said “sidekick“ instead of Le Grand as I didn't know if you wanted me to mention all of this on the boards yet...

Motivation aside, forming a vigilance committee was a very civic idea. But the end result of their efforts are three (or more) of the biggest hoaxes in Ripperology that succeeded in sending police off on the wrong track - Packer, the Batty Street Lodger, and the From hell kidney.

Completely agree. It was a very civic idea which became a financial venture. And, as criminals were involved (Le Grand and his sidekicks), it degenerated into deception.

[Tom_Wescott]

There have been suspicions issued that the Lusk letter cum kidney might have been a hoax organized by Joseph Aarons and his sidekicks. For Aarons' sidekicks there is plenty of evidence of a criminal past. Aarons himself needs to be researched better.

Le Grand was certainly not a 'sidekick' of Aarons. Not to be nitpicky, but...

As for Aarons, he was forced to sell his pub in 1889. Damn shame he didn't get that reward money!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Chris,

The WVC was the brainchild of Joseph Aarons, a pub owner. Lusk was the 'face man'. He fixed up theaters. Neither of these men would have suffered one iota of business loss because of the murders. By contrast, the big meetings at the Crown (at which the public was always encouraged to attend) would have been a boom for Aarons, whose pub was constantly advertised. It goes without saying that these men would not want a woman killer roaming the streets, but I think it's clear that money was the obvious motivator here. Aarons was a publican who hired Le Grand, a career criminal and pimp. Le Grand frequented Mile End pubs. You think Aarons didn't know who and what he was hiring? Of course he did. Lusk did not, however, though he eventually found out when he got a gun in his face. As I discussed in another thread, there's a clear chain of evidence that shows Le Grand (almost certainly in concert with Aarons) hoaxed the From hell letter/ kidney. Aarons's motive? To drum up more publicity and money.

Motivation aside, forming a vigilance committee was a very civic idea. But the end result of their efforts are three (or more) of the biggest hoaxes in Ripperology that succeeded in sending police off on the wrong track - Packer, the Batty Street Lodger, and the From hell kidney.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

That the top brass of the IWEC and the WVC were well-known to each other is precisely what I want to research, Tom, as you know that I have my suspicions about Le Grand's physical description (as Pipeman) having turned up so prominently in Schwartz' testimony. It will take quite a while to research this, in the newspapers, in the William Wess archive, in Der Arbeter Fraint (if we manage to get more issues translated). I'm also waiting to receive Eduardo Zinna's old Rip article on Rombro.
What I always wanted to know more about is the Saint John's Working Men's Club on Sander Street and Backchurch Lane (one block Northwest off the IWEC). It appears to have had a quieter reputation than the IWEC, but whom was it involved with?

To Chris George:
There have been suspicions issued that the Lusk letter cum kidney might have been a hoax organized by Joseph Aarons and his sidekicks. For Aarons' sidekicks there is plenty of evidence of a criminal past. Aarons himself needs to be researched better.

[ChrisGeorge]

Quick reality check about the WVC. They were in it to make money. Nothing wrong with that, but let it be said. They had three objectives - petition the public for money, petition the government for reward money, catch Jack the Ripper. If they catch Jack they get all the money, if they fail to catch Jack, then keep the public's money. In the interim, they publicized their own businesses. It was a win/win for them.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom

To say "They were in it to make money" seems a bit superficial. Weren't they also genuinely interested in ridding the community of a killer who was bad for business? Do you really think they're aim was to get the reward money or did they want to capture the killer? And how much publicity did they realistically get for their businesses through being part of the committee? Not much I would say.

Chris

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Maria,

While I'm clearly not the expert on the WVC that Monty is, I believe I can state that the WVC did not use the Berner Street club as a 'meeting place', but instead would have taken the stage to speak to the attendees about becoming patrolmen for the WVC.
As Monty could no doubt confirm, the Berner Street club would often hold open air speeches on the Mile End Road and lead marches that would terminate there. This is where Joseph Aarons' pub was located. Aarons would be quoted in anarchist newspapers, suggesting sympathy with the cause. All this and the fact that their respective premises were only a mile apart suggests the top brass of the IWEC and the WVC were well-known to each other.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

The WVC was also interested in collaborating with the IWEC or with other political clubs, at least in using their premises for meetings, as The Daily Telegraph of September 11, 1888 documents. This despite the WVC having Joseph Aarons' The Crown tavern at 74, Mile-End Road at their disposition. Clearly the WVC was interested in expansion AND public attention, both through the various political clubs and the press.