Ripper-Related Victorian Vocabulary

[Archaic]

Slang Meaning of 'Pensioner'

Here's an interesting slang term. It reminded me of Annie Chapman's "friend" Edward Stanley, who was known as "the Pensioner".

This is from Hotten's 1872 Slang Dictionary.

"PENSIONER, a man of the most degraded morals who lives off the miserable earnings of a prostitute."

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

Victorian Underworld Slang

Hi everyone. Thought I'd revive this old thread as we had so much fun with it.

These underworld terms are from the Victorian Slang Glossary.


Ladybird: A Prostitute.

Tail: A Prostitute.

Toffer: A superior whore.

Roller: A thief who robs drunks or a prostitute who steals from her clientele.

Mandrake: A homosexual.

Nancy: Buttocks. (This definition puts a different twist on the old term "Nancy Boy", doesn't it? Apparently it means more than just "an effeminate male"!)

Crapped: Hung, hanged.

Topped: Hung.

Topping: A hanging. (This makes George Topping Hutchinson's middle name rather interesting.)

Nethers: Lodging charges, rent.

Netherskens: Low lodging houses, flophouses.

Newgate Knockers: Heavily greased side whiskers curling back to, or over the ears. (Ugh- unfortunately as I read the definition I couldn't help picturing it!)

The Chapel: Whitechapel.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Carol]

Could the term "oh murder" be the shorthand written version of "a cry of murder"?

Lets say a witness/interviewee uses the exact words "I heard a cry of murder" when giving a statement to a reporter. The lazy arsed journalist then shortens this to simply "oh murder!"

Hi Jason!
I don't think this is very likely. I've had secretarial training (a long time ago, 1960's) which included Pitman's shorthand. When you use shorthand every working day you just automatically write down what you hear. It becomes almost second-nature. You don't have to think about what symbols to use - it's like ordinary writing to you, but faster!
Love
Carol

[jason_c]

Sarah-Lee

I'm interested in the assertion that I've seen in several places regarding the phrase "Oh, Murder!" being a common exclamation in the LVP . . . in fact something akin to a modern "Oh, expletive!"

I'm no expert on words, but in the Ripper case the discussion has often been about whether such a cry was believable.

In Victorian melodrama one can imagine an actor or actress using the words, but in a theatrical way, with full gestures and imploring looks. But was it something the sort of people who lived on Dorset St would say?

If you were woken up and found a knife hurtling towards you, would you use those words?

On the other hand one might make a case for "Oh!" pause, then a yelled, "MURDER!!!" But that is not how it is recorded.

From my youth in the 50s, I think I recall people saying, "Oh, murder" as a sort of mild cuss-word, at a time when four-letter words and even "bloody" or "blimey" were regarded as much more shocking then they are nowadays.

The options are that, assuming the phrase was spoken at all, it related to:

a) Mary Kelly waking and realising her danger (I think this unlikely)

b) someone entering the room and discovering the body (perhaps even more unlikely)

c) a remark in the street unconnected with the murder of MJK (perhaps more likely now that we know Elizabeth Prater may have occupied a FRONT room overlooking Dorset St).

Phil

Could the term "oh murder" be the shorthand written version of "a cry of murder"?

Lets say a witness/interviewee uses the exact words "I heard a cry of murder" when giving a statement to a reporter. The lazy arsed journalist then shortens this to simply "oh murder!"

[YankeeSergeant]

Wandering

Came across this one yesterday for a prostitute - "wandering beauty of the night".

I always like the term "Soiled dove"

[YankeeSergeant]

modern equivalent

Hello again all,

Just catching up. A cockchafer is actually a kind of beetle (called a maybug where I grew up), I think in the press-cutting about hunting that "knickers" is short for knickerbockers.( Baggy trousers to the knees, you wouldnīt want your pheasants running up your trouserlegs)

A "gay young man about town", perhaps we shouldnīt go there, not even with reference to Prince Eddy - just meant a playboy (which is probably dated now as well - canīt think of a modern equivilant - perhaps young men donīt play as much as they did). Continuing on this theme reminds me of the old anonymous verse which would be completely misunderstood these days:

"All the worldīs gone mad, mīdear,
Save thee and me,
And even theeīs a little queer."

Sometimes comes to mind when I`m reading through the casebook!


Regards,
C4

C4; The terms "rake" or "rogue" were used cad as well depending on context. Here in the U.S. hound is used to denote someone who revels in feminine company. I'm in my mid fifties so what the younger generation uses eludes me though "Player" (Playa in hip-hop parlance) sounds about right.

[Phil H]

Sarah-Lee

I'm interested in the assertion that I've seen in several places regarding the phrase "Oh, Murder!" being a common exclamation in the LVP . . . in fact something akin to a modern "Oh, expletive!"

I'm no expert on words, but in the Ripper case the discussion has often been about whether such a cry was believable.

In Victorian melodrama one can imagine an actor or actress using the words, but in a theatrical way, with full gestures and imploring looks. But was it something the sort of people who lived on Dorset St would say?

If you were woken up and found a knife hurtling towards you, would you use those words?

On the other hand one might make a case for "Oh!" pause, then a yelled, "MURDER!!!" But that is not how it is recorded.

From my youth in the 50s, I think I recall people saying, "Oh, murder" as a sort of mild cuss-word, at a time when four-letter words and even "bloody" or "blimey" were regarded as much more shocking then they are nowadays.

The options are that, assuming the phrase was spoken at all, it related to:

a) Mary Kelly waking and realising her danger (I think this unlikely)

b) someone entering the room and discovering the body (perhaps even more unlikely)

c) a remark in the street unconnected with the murder of MJK (perhaps more likely now that we know Elizabeth Prater may have occupied a FRONT room overlooking Dorset St).

Phil

[curious4]

vic vocab

Came across this one yesterday for a prostitute - "wandering beauty of the night".

[SarahLee]

Oh Murder!

all !
This is my first proper post here, so please forgive me if I've failed to post in an appropriate thread.

I'm interested in the assertion that I've seen in several places regarding the phrase "Oh, Murder!" being a common exclamation in the LVP . . . in fact something akin to a modern "Oh, expletive!"

Having read the related threads on here I've started doing some digging to find the possible etymology of such an expression.
Early days yet, but I thought I'd share my thought processes and findings so far and open it up for discussion.

I had a little spark of inspiration that set me wondering "Could that phrase possibly be derived from 'Blue Murder'"?

We're all familiar with "somebody screaming blue murder", but in line with modern usage I've always taken that to just be a metaphor for somebody making a lot of noise. Could it have ever been an expression in its own right though? Would anybody have ever said the actual words "Blue Murder"?
I suspected that the answer was "no", but to my surprise I've found that "Blue Murder" originates from the French "morbleu" (a contraction of "mort bleu") and that was definitely used as an expletive in its own right - bleu being a polite euphemism for dieu (God).

As yet, I don't have any solid evidence of "blue murder!" actually being used in this way and I've still got some work to do around the time periods when each of those phrases was used, but the idea seems to be moving in a logical direction.

Please feel free to tell me that I'm talking complete rubbish, but to me this is feeling like a plausible proposition.

Best Wishes All,

Sarah

[sdreid]

I believe playboy became player then dog which may be the diminutive of whoredog.

[Archaic]

"Buttock And File", "Buttocking Shop", "Barrack-hack"

I looked up "Buttock and File" and actually managed to find some more info on it.
The following definitions are from an 1890 book:

Buttock—A common prostitute. [For synonyms, see Barrack-hack, and Buttock and File.]

Buttock And File—A prostitute and her companion.
Occasionally, too, Buttock And File is used of a single individual — one who unites the roles of a thief and prostitute. [From Buttock, a whore+ File, a pickpocket.]

Buttock And File, a common whore and a pickpocket.

Buttock And Tongue -A scolding woman; a shrew.

Buttock And Twang— A common prostitute, but who refrains from theft.

Buttock Ball, (old).—1.A dance attended by prostitutes. 2. (old.)—The sexual embrace; cohabitation.

Buttock-ball —The amorous congress.

Buttock-Banquetting (old). —Harlotry.

Buttock-broker—A procuress; a bawd; an abbess.

Buttocking Shop—A brothel; a house of ill fame used by the lowest class of public women.

---------------

'Barrack-hack'- was obviously a slang term applied to prostitutes who consorted with soldiers. A "bawd" was usually a woman who ran a bawdy-house or brothel.
A 'procuress' was a female, often older, who looked for innocent young girls to entice or trick into prostitution. She also arranged their "sale" to others. (William Stead wrote about these women and the shamefully deceptive practices they used. They often posed as kindly older women seeking a girl to do household chores, etc.) In the old days if a bawd was arrested and driven through town on a cart she was called "A Carted Bawd." "Abbess" is an irreverent slang term for a bawd or procuress.

The other slang terms are new to me, but apparently it was common for a prostitute to also be regarded as either a petty thief or the companion of a thief.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

Victorian Slang for Various Types of 'Thief'

Here's a list of Victorian slang terms for thieves, and the 'specialty' to which they apply.

"Among other names for thieves may be mentioned:—

Beak or beaker-hunter (a poultry thief);
bug-hunter (specialty—breast pins, studs, etc.);
buz-faker (a pickpocket);
buttock and file(a shoplifter);

bouncer (one who steals while bargaining with a tradesman; a shoplifter);
bridle-cull (a highwayman);
cracksman (a burglar);
crossman (An old term. Literally a man 'on the cross,' or who gets his living surreptitiously);
cross-cove (see foregoing);

conveyancer (a pickpocket);
dancer (a thief who gains entrance to houses from the roof);
flash-cove (a sharper);
flashman (a prostitute's bully who pretends to catch the victim in flagrantc delicto with his wife, and thus makes an excuse for robbery and extortion);

finder (a thief who confines his depredations to meat-markets and butchers' shops);
gleaner, hooker, or angler (these are petty thieves, who work with hooks and rods);
lobsneak; lully-prigger (one who steals clothes when they are hanging out to dry);
snakesman or sneaksman (a shoplifter; a petty thief);

sneeze-lurker (this kind work by first blinding victims with pepper, etc.);
moucher (a prowling thief);
prig; prop-nailer (a 'prop' is a scarf pin);
palmer (a thief who 'rings the changes');

pudding-slammer (an eating-house thief);
drummer or drammer (they stupify their victims prior to robbing them);
stock-hauler (speciality — pocket-handkerchiefs); tooler (a pickpocket);
toy-getter (a watch thief)."


"Buttock and file" for "shoplifter"- now that is truly bizarre! (I started to wonder about its origins, then realized they probably don't bear thinking about! )

Cheers,
Archaic

[Carol]

Hi everyone.

Here's a slang term used by costermongers I found in a Victorian book:

Gawf - a cheap red-skinned apple, a favourite fruit with costermongers, who rub them well with a piece of cloth, and find ready purchasers.

Does anyone know if "gawf" is still used?

Hmmm... "as American as Gawf Pie". Nope, it doesn't work.

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi Archaic,
I don't know if 'gawf' is still used and I haven't heard it before myself (not that that is anything to go by!). But I have had a thought about the cheap apples. I can remember when I was young the very red, shiny apples that were cheaper than the others. The only problem was that they didn't taste as good as they looked. They had hardly any taste and the inside was a bit 'spongy' and not at all crisp. Now when I was young you used to hear grown-ups say that something was 'God awful'. Perhaps 'Gawf' is taken from this.
Love
Carol

[curious4]

Vic vocab

Just in case I have inadvertantly offended anyone: queer = odd, strange, more recently = gay.

Best wishes
c4

[curious4]

Victorian vocab

Hello again all,

Just catching up. A cockchafer is actually a kind of beetle (called a maybug where I grew up), I think in the press-cutting about hunting that "knickers" is short for knickerbockers.( Baggy trousers to the knees, you wouldnīt want your pheasants running up your trouserlegs)

A "gay young man about town", perhaps we shouldnīt go there, not even with reference to Prince Eddy - just meant a playboy (which is probably dated now as well - canīt think of a modern equivilant - perhaps young men donīt play as much as they did). Continuing on this theme reminds me of the old anonymous verse which would be completely misunderstood these days:

"All the worldīs gone mad, mīdear,
Save thee and me,
And even theeīs a little queer."

Sometimes comes to mind when I`m reading through the casebook!


Regards,
C4