Ripper-Related Victorian Vocabulary

[Archaic]

Victorian Slang Synonyms For "Police"

Hello Ansonfish. Thank you; I'm glad that you're enjoying the thread.

Here are some more 19th C. synonyms for "Police". Some were mentioned previously in extracts from other books and some are new.

SYNONYMS FOR POLICE. 'Blue' (traceable to Queen Elizabeth's days when the colour of the uniform was the same as now); 'men in blue'; 'Royal Regiment of Footguards Blue'; 'bluebottle' (used by Shakspeare); 'blue coat' (also a Shakspearian term, and still in use); 'Dogberry' (an allusion to Much Ado about Nothing); 'charley' (one of the old watchmen); 'bobby'; 'peeler'; 'copper' (a thieves' term, from 'to cop' to lay hold of); 'crusher' (thieves'); 'slop' (a back slang corruption of 'police' = esclop, with c not sounded and shortened to 'slop'); 'scufter' (a northern term, as also is the example next following); 'bulky ' (used by Bulwer Lytton); 'philip' (from a thieves' signal); 'cossack'; 'philistine'; 'frog' (from pouncing upon criminals); 'Johnnie Darby' (a corruption of gendarme); 'Johnnie'; 'pig' (a plain clothes man);
'worm'; 'nose '; 'nark'; 'dee' 'tec' (a detective); the C.T.A. (a circus man's term); 'demon' (Australian thieves'); 'reeler'; 'raw lobster' (this like ‘blue,' would appear to be a reference to the colour of the uniform).


Note "esclop /slop" as 'back-slang' for police, and "dee" for detective.

I don't understand what "the C.T.A." means or how it relates to circuses; does anybody know?

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

Beer Pails and "Rushing The Growler"

I was looking for an image of a beer pail such as the man seen with Mary Kelly called "Blotchy-Face" might have carried. In the late 19th C. beer pails would have been either metal or porcelain.

I found this article with a photo of a metal beer-pail, and decided to post it because it used a phrase my Dad taught me "rushing the growler". When he was a child in NY, kids were still allowed to go to the local tavern and get a bucket of beer for their fathers or for workmen who were paying them to run this errand. Going for a bucket of beer was called "rushing the growler."

H.L. Mencken said the term was in use by 1888. Jack London mentioned it in his writings in the 1890's. One story of the phrase's origins is that "rushing the growler" refers to the noise that the bucket made as it slide along the top of the bar. It seems to me that it would make more sense if the one doing the "rushing" is the kid in a hurry to get back and earn his tip for being quick!

Attached is a c. 1890's photo of a boy "rushing the growler."

Does anybody know if there was a similar slang phrase used in the UK?

'Rushing the growler' article: http://www.maltedbarley.org/2005/11/

Thanks,
Archaic

[Archaic]

Beer Pails & "Rushing the Growler"- More Pics

This article has some more pictures, including one showing a variety of granite-wear beer pails. (That's a kind of enamel-clad metal often used for buckets or the pots, pans, cups, etc. meant for camping. Speckled blue, black, white & gray are the most common colors.)

There's also an old ad for a "growler" in this article, so apparently the "growler" wasn't the beer or the customer, it was the bucket itself.

http://www.bottless.org/The_History_of_The_Beer_Growler_s/605.htm

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

"Growler" In c.1889 English & American Slang

I found this definition from an 1889 dictionary:

growler (grou'ler)
1. One who growls.
2. A certain fish: same as grunt
3. A four-wheeled cab. [Slang, Eng.]
4. A vessel, as a pitcher, jug, pail, or can, brought by a customer for beer. [Slang, U. S., of unknown origin.]

Cheers,
Archaic

[Archaic]

"Gatter" and "Shant of Gatter" & 'Bet the Coaley's Daughter'

I found a slang term for beer. The following definition and rhyme were given in a Victorian book; the words in italics are also slang.

GATTER, beer; "shant of GATTER," a pot of beer.

A curious Slang street melody, known in Seven Dials as 'Bet, the Coaley's Daughter', thus mentions the word in a favourite verse—

"But when I strove my name to tell,
Says she, “Come, stow that patter,
If you're a cove wot likes a gal,
Why don't you stand some GATTER?'

In course I instantly complied—
Two brimming quarts of porter,
With four goes of gin beside,
Drain'd Bet, the Coaley's daughter."

Now that you know the words, hopefully one of you will sing this song at the next conference.

Archaic

[YankeeSergeant]

Growler

I found a slang term for beer. The following definition and rhyme were given in a Victorian book; the words in italics are also slang.

GATTER, beer; "shant of GATTER," a pot of beer.

A curious Slang street melody, known in Seven Dials as 'Bet, the Coaley's Daughter', thus mentions the word in a favourite verse—

"But when I strove my name to tell,
Says she, “Come, stow that patter,
If you're a cove wot likes a gal,
Why don't you stand some GATTER?'

In course I instantly complied—
Two brimming quarts of porter,
With four goes of gin beside,
Drain'd Bet, the Coaley's daughter."

Now that you know the words, hopefully one of you will sing this song at the next conference.

Archaic

There's a microbrewery in the area here that sells their ale by the growler. I can't remember off the top of my head the name but it's on the Seneca lake wine trail (Finger lakes in Upstate New York)I believe it's inbetween a quart and a gallon but don't quote me on that.

[Archaic]

British Slang Term for 'Pail of Beer'??

Hi Neil. I've heard of some other micro-breweries who sell small take-out containers of beer they call "growlers". Unfortunately, they don't come in a tin buckets anymore.

There must be a late 19th C. British slang term for a "take-away pail of beer", but I'm afraid it's proving elusive.

If anybody knows the slang term, I'd greatly appreciate your posting it.

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[YankeeSergeant]

Growler

Hi Neil. I've heard of some other micro-breweries who sell small take-out containers of beer they call "growlers". Unfortunately, they don't come in a tin buckets anymore.

There must be a late 19th C. British slang term for a "take-away pail of beer", but I'm afraid it's proving elusive.

If anybody knows the slang term, I'd greatly appreciate your posting it.

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

It was used here in the states as well and has the same meaning although in WWII, the American navy used it as slang for the intercom what we called in my salt water days the bitch box.

[Stephen Thomas]

There must be a late 19th C. British slang term for a "take-away pail of beer"

I suspect that there never was one, Archaic, but who knows? There's an amusing statement by a Spitalfields policeman in the Booth survey reports where the researcher deplores the practice of children being sent to pubs to fetch beer. The policeman demurs and says that this is fine because the child takes the beer and goes but if the mothers go into the pub themselves they tend to stay there. In the meantime thanks for solving a little personal 50 year old mystery for me. In his 1939 record 'Mamie's Blues', Jelly Roll Morton describes how he learned 'the first blues I ever heard in my life' in 1905 by becoming the 'can rusher', a term I never understood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-QTtMuejAI

Best wishes as always

[The Grave Maurice]

I suspect that Stephen might be right, Bunny. Every Sunday lunchtime, my grandfather was sent down Turners Road (now, mostly gone) to fetch a pail of beer for my great-grandfather from a pub called The Albion (now, completely gone). My grandfather always called it "a pail o' beer", and he was a guy who loved to use slang whenever possible. Since he always said pail (and I must have heard that story a dozen times) I'd bet that it was just called a pail.

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

I think you're right Maurice and Stephen, as far as I know it was just a pail or jug of beer. I've never heard any other term for it. I've still got an old earthenware jug and pot with a lid in my cupboard that was my great granmas which she used to send my nan to fetch pie and mash and beer in (as well as milk).

I still use them, but my husband is forbidden on pain of death to touch them, because if he broke either of them his life wouldn't be living.

Hugs

Janie

xxxxx

[Carol]

Hi everyone!

I thought you might be interested to know how the street traders in the East End came to be called 'costermongers'. This name derives from the sellers of costard apples, a variety known since the 1200's and one of the first fruits to be sold by London street traders.

When I was young in Chatham a costermonger was someone who sold items of food (fruit, fish, vegetables, etc.) from a barrow that could be moved about. Does anyone know if 'costermonger' was (or is) used for a seller with a fixed pitch in the East End?

Love
Carol

[Carol]

[QUOTE=Archaic;169364


CHARLEY or CHARLIE, (old). — I. A night watchman, A popular name, prior to the introduction by Sir R. Peel, in 1829, of the present police force ; since when it has fallen into desuetude.
< Note: 'Desuetude' refers to that which is lapsed or obsolete. >

Hi Archaic,

'He's a proper Charlie' was used when I was young when talking about a male of any age who was humourous or liked fooling about. I was very interested to read the above quote!

Love
Carol

[ChrisGeorge]

[QUOTE=Carol;170232][QUOTE=Archaic;169364


CHARLEY or CHARLIE, (old). — I. A night watchman, A popular name, prior to the introduction by Sir R. Peel, in 1829, of the present police force ; since when it has fallen into desuetude.
< Note: 'Desuetude' refers to that which is lapsed or obsolete. >

Hi Archaic,

'He's a proper Charlie' was used when I was young when talking about a male of any age who was humourous or liked fooling about. I was very interested to read the above quote!

Love
Carol [/QUOTE]

I might be wrong but I don't think that the traditional English term to refer to someone as a "proper Charlie" or a "right Charlie" has anything to do with the nickname "Charlie" to designate a night watchman. You might not have been making that connection, of course, but I thought I would just make that point.

Best regards

Chris

[Carol]

[QUOTE=ChrisGeorge;170251]

I might be wrong but I don't think that the traditional English term to refer to someone as a "proper Charlie" or a "right Charlie" has anything to do with the nickname "Charlie" to designate a night watchman. You might not have been making that connection, of course, but I thought I would just make that point.

Best regards

Chris

Hi Chris,
I was 'making that connection' actually! But yesterday evening I suddenly thought that perhaps 'a proper (or right) Charlie' more likely referred to someone being like Charlie Chaplin. Of course, this would have been 'thought up' some years after Jack the Ripper time as Chaplin was born in 1889. So just a few minutes ago I looked in to Casebook to correct myself! Thanks for your post. I never mind being 'corrected' as I always look on life as a continuous learning curve!
Love
Carol xxx