whitechapel murders pre jack

[miss marple]

In Bruce Paley's book he prints a list of Whitechapel district deaths for 1887. There is not one murder listed, or knife suicides.this seems odd as Israel Lipsky was tried and hanged for the murder of Miriam Angel in 1887. Acid not knife.
The absence of this murder makes me wonder how accurate the official listing is.
Also how many knife attacks were perpetuated on women in the district that were not life threatening. before 1888
So if knife attacks in the district were unusual, the year 1888, which had an excelaration of knife attacks on women, starting with Annie Millward through to Mary Kelly, seems to suggests an abnomality. Which could mean Jack did all of them and was practising. I 've always thought Martha was a jack victim and possibliy Milwood before he perfected his throat cutting technique.

It would be good to get some accurate figures on knife attacks on women
before 1888.

Cheers Miss Marple

[Robert]

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-statistical.html

[miss marple]

Thanks Robert, that's an interesting article, I thought the statistics might be skewed, yet still seems to support the fact that murder was a rare event
It leaves the question open as to how common knife attacks were on women in Whitechapel before Jack.
Whitechapel crime seemed to involve thieving, robbery, domestic and stranger assault drunkeness and prostitution rather than murder or knife crime. People who died as a result of fighting would not be identified as murder victims necessarily, and some suicides may have been murders
The knife crimes of 1888 are unusual, not the norm. Fists and boots strangulation was more the norm.Many men did beat their partners to death and were hanged for it[ life of James Berry hangman]
I think the canical five is too rigid a perspective, serial killers don't suddenly appear with their MO in place, they have usually done lots of other crime first
miss marple

[lynn cates]

trawling

Hello Miss Marple. I think you are on to something here.

When I trawl Lloyd's for April 8, 1888 (the week after Emma Smith was killed) I find (working from memory) 4 knife jobs from the greater London metropolitan area. There is much similar as I trawl week by week. The violence is rather astonishing--especially if you buy into the theory that knifings were uncommon. On the other hand, it is rather paedestrian given the violence we are used to in contemporary society.

Out of curiosity, why are we assuming a serial killer here?

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

There must have been lots of knife crime against women - knife threats or actual injuries - which the women didn't report, either through fear or because there was just no chance of anyone being caught.

[miss marple]

Hi Lynn,
I 'm assuming a serial killer because of the frequency of knife attacks in 1888. Why suddenly in that year? Also it was the murder of Martha Tabram that created the fear. The ferocity if the attack on her was unprecedented and motiveless. She was descibed as ''literally butchered ' The first vigilance committee was set up as a result of this crime.
So this murder was a very unusual event.
Robert, If there were unreported knife attacks on women, a lot of women would have died of knife wounds, considering the bad hygiene and lack of drugs which would have been reflected in the statistics, Or the women would have gone to hospital using the Milward defence of unknown man. But there is not evidence of increased deaths and wounding of women by knife.
Cheers miss marple

[Hunter]

In Bruce Paley's book he prints a list of Whitechapel district deaths for 1887. There is not one murder listed, or knife suicides.this seems odd as Israel Lipsky was tried and hanged for the murder of Miriam Angel in 1887. Acid not knife.
The absence of this murder makes me wonder how accurate the official listing is.
Also how many knife attacks were perpetuated on women in the district that were not life threatening. before 1888
So if knife attacks in the district were unusual, the year 1888, which had an excelaration of knife attacks on women, starting with Annie Millward through to Mary Kelly, seems to suggests an abnomality. Which could mean Jack did all of them and was practising. I 've always thought Martha was a jack victim and possibliy Milwood before he perfected his throat cutting technique.

It would be good to get some accurate figures on knife attacks on women
before 1888.

Cheers Miss Marple

Miriam Angel was killed in St. George-in-the-East, Parish. Its a technicality but that may account for the difference.

Here is a link to an old thread that shows the statistical chart.

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4921/8300.html

I posted on another thread Colin Roberts findings for murder of women over 20 by cut/stab for the entirity of England.
1887- 11 murders
1888- 17 murders
1889- 11 murders
The reason was that when narrowed down to the above Whitechapel chart, it only includes residents. Looking at the entirity of England during those years is the only way to achieve some accuracy.

Nevertheless, it is an astounding statistic and shows that 1888 was an unusual year for this type of murder for some reason. A miscreant with the propensity to kill several women of the same type, in the same area, in 3 months, with no apparent motive, with a knife would be a logical assumption given the fact that such an occurance did not happen before or since.

[caz]

We'll have no serial killers here.

And that, as they say, is that. Or at least it jolly well ought to be.

Shame on you, Hunter, for using facts to squash the latest myth - like squishing a moth.

Love,

Caz
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