Sherlock Holmes and the Whitechapel Murders

[Celesta]

Hi Belinda, In light of the book I'm trying to finish, I would love to know the answer to that question. Dust and Shadow: An Account of the Ripper Murders by Dr John Watson. by Lyndsay Faye. I wonder how close Lyndsay got.

[Celesta]

Good one, Matt. He did, didn't he?

[Supe]

Tom,

A better question would be 'Did Sherlock Holmes influence the Ripper'? As writer, Jeffrey Bloomfield, pointed out years ago, in a 'Study in Scarlet', appearing in 1887, Holmes investigates a strange, unintelligible graffiti upon a wall. Next year we get the Goulston Street graffito.

Aye, but even if the Ripper was influenced by Holmes it is worthless because as Jefferson Hope said to Holmes et al., he wrote RACHE (German for revenge) on the wall of the murder site imply to confuse the police. So the possibility gets us no further ahead.

Don.

[Archaic]

Hi Cel, I didn't realize Mayerling was Jeff, thanks for telling us. You are always good at knowing those things.

I think this might be the book Tom referred to:
'Who Was Jack the Ripper? A Collection of Present-Day Theories and Observations' by Camille Wolff
(London: Grey House Books, 1995)

Maybe Mayerling can tell us.

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[Tom_Wescott]

Yes, that's the book. And I didn't mention Mayering was Jeff because I figured he'd show up and do that if he wanted.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mklhawley]

Couldn't one of you PM Jeff or something? I'd love to read a response from him.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Celesta]

I've done that, Mike. When I hear from him, I'll tell him people are interested. I haven't seen him here in awhile though.

[Celesta]

Mike, Jeff said he would try to get in touch.

[GregBaron]

Detective Fiction....

Like most things in life, the detective story followed an evolutionary
path. To see its genesis one must look at those some have already mentioned
including Wilkie Collins, E.T.A. Hoffman, Ann Radcliffe, Sheridan Le Fanu,
that French Vicocq fellow and others. But it's indisputed that its modern form was wholly outlined by Edgar Allan Poe in his tales
Murder in the Rue Morque and The Purloined Letter. He posited the brilliant
reclusive Detective, his trusty sidekick and the art of deduction. Doyle picked up on this and ran fast. One of the first if not the first Conan D. tale gives Edgar his props with a mention and brush off of his detective C. Auguste Dupin. Perhaps JTR read Rue Morgue and decided to slash his way to infamy a la the Orangutan.....




Greg

[Celesta]

Well said, Greg. The bit about the orangutan recalls The Speckled Band by Doyle. Remember the doctor had a cheetah and a wild ape patrolling the grounds of the estate at night?

[mklhawley]

Mike, Jeff said he would try to get in touch.

Thank you Celesta!

Sincerely,

Mike

[Tom_Wescott]

Just this week I read Agatha Christie's Ten Little Indians aka And Then There Were None. Although it's the best-selling mystery book of all time, I'd never read it before! It had me genuinely scared towards the end, which is more than I can say for most books I've read, and I've read mostly horror and mystery. The original title of this book was Ten Little N**gers. Good thing they changed it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Dr. John Watson]

But it's indisputed that its modern form was wholly outlined by Edgar Allan Poe in his tales . . . He posited the brilliant reclusive Detective, his trusty sidekick and the art of deduction. Doyle picked up on this and ran fast . . . .

An astute observation, Greg. Doyle never mentioned Poe as an inspiration, nor did he ever compare himself with the American writer, but one of his earliest editors at Strand Magazine did. After reading the first Holmes manuscripts submitted for print by Doyle's agent, H. Greenhough Smith later wrote: "I at once realized that here was the greatest short-story writer since Edgar Allen Poe."

[GregBaron]

Doyle, Poe etc..........

After reading the first Holmes manuscripts submitted for print by Doyle's agent, H. Greenhough Smith later wrote: "I at once realized that here was the greatest short-story writer since Edgar Allen Poe

Thanks Dr. John........no surprise there........Doyle may not have mentioned Poe as a direct influence but his Tale did.....if necessary I could go dig up that tribute but that's probably off thread.......

I imagine fascination over the JtR murders and the influence of Doyle could have commingled....as perhaps did "Jeckyl and Hyde" which was also the same time frame.............as for the literacy of Whitechapel......my guess is it wasn't exactly Salon culture...........

Greg

[Captain Hook]

Doyle and Poe

Hello everyone,

Doyle may not have compared himself to Poe, but Watson compared Holmes to both Poe's Dupin and Émile Gaboriau's Lecoq in "A Study in Scarlet".

"You remind me of Edgar Allen Poe's Dupin. [says Watson]. I had no idea that such individuals did exist outside of stories."

Sherlock Holmes rose and lit his pipe. "No doubt you think that you are complimenting me in comparing me to Dupin," he observed. "Now, in my opinion, Dupin was a very inferior fellow. That trick of his of breaking in on his friends' thoughts with an apropos remark after a quarter of an hour's silence is really very showy and superficial. He had some analytical genius, no doubt; but he was by no means such a phenomenon as Poe appeared to imagine."

"Have you read Gaboriau's works?" I asked. "Does Lecoq come up to your idea of a detective?"

Sherlock Holmes sniffed sardonically. "Lecoq was a miserable bungler," he said, in an angry voice; "he had only one thing to recommend him, and that was his energy. That book made me positively ill. The question was how to identify an unknown prisoner. I could have done it in twenty-four hours. Lecoq took six months or so. It might be made a text-book for detectives to teach them what to avoid."

I felt rather indignant at having two characters whom I had admired treated in this cavalier style. I walked over to the window, and stood looking out into the busy street. "This fellow may be very clever," I said to myself, "but he is certainly very conceited."

Cheers
Hook