Jack And A Pair Of Scissors?

[waterloo]

scissors

I have often thought about the slitting of the eyelids of eddowes. This would have been impossible with a knife. It must have been scissors as a knife would have just bunched up the skin so to speak. It is clear that scissors were used. This will change all of your thoughts........

[wolfie1]

I have often thought about the slitting of the eyelids of eddowes. This would have been impossible with a knife. It must have been scissors as a knife would have just bunched up the skin so to speak. It is clear that scissors were used. This will change all of your thoughts........

Not as likely a scenario given that Surgeons are able to cut into skin, with skill, without use of scissors. Using a pinching motion to bunch up the skin will then allow the use of a knife or scalpel.

[cappuccina]

...furriers too....the sharpness of the knife, and the fact that they use it while keeping the "pointer finger" on it, also feep the flesh from tearing and allow them to make cuts on thick pelts with a lot of dexterity...

[My great-uncle Moe (Moishe) was a furrier in New York City; he had a good-sized shop and employed quite a few assistants and tailors as well...]

[Adam Went]

Trevor, the apron is known to have been smeared with blood and faeces. Soaked might not have been quite the right word but it was much more than spotted, as you would expect from it being worn by somebody who's just had their abdomen ripped apart.

Wolfie, it depends on the type of fabric. If it is thinner and worn, you could just stretch it and be able to cut it that way pretty easily with a knife. Scissors would probably take longer and be more difficult to use - more difficult in general when you're running on very limited time. One quick, swift cut of the knife is the more likely option.

Good post by Archaic, am also in agreement there.

Cheers,
Adam.

[D.B.Wagstaff]

Are there any other indications of the use of scissors in the cannonical five murders?

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

This reminds me of Peter Kuerten (The Dusseldorf Ripper). Although Kuerten confessed to being influenced by JTR, his victims were both male and female including some very young children. He always carried a pair of scissors around with him all the time.
He had a need to share his terrible crimes with someone. His wife was his confidente. She was with him outside a church when he was arrested. Quoting from Don Rumbelow in his book, "The Complete Jack the Ripper" , 1987, "Neither insanity nor irresistible impulse could be put forward as a defence for these murders."

best wishes

Phil

[Mascara & Paranoia]

This is actually a bloody good (and plausible!) theory. Though it'd depend on the type of scissors he hypothetically used, but still; I like it.

Plus, if the Ripper was stopped on the street pre-kill and caught with a pair of scissors on him, would that be as suspicious as carrying a knife?

[GregBaron]

Knife not Scissors.....

I don't think the implication was M & P that JtR killed with the scissors. Only that he cut the apron with them. I agree with someone who said he didn't have the time for such. I personally think he worked with one knife in a mad frenzy and got out.......I can't see him taking his time and going through his toolbox. Of course all speculation as usual.............


Greg

[belinda]

Yes my original idea wsa that he was carrying the scissors with him. But maybe he did use them

I still think that if he cut the apron with a knife especially if he was holding it up it would have warped the fabric and left a jagged line

[Phil Carter]

Hello belinda,

The thing that strikes me is pretty clear really. Why bother to use time in putting the knife down, fiddle around in a pocket and take out the scissors, cut the apron with scissors, etc etc etc...nope, for me, he had a knife, and he used it. On her and her clothes. I cannot believe he would have used up valuable seconds deciding what to cut material with vis a vis what to cut the body with.

best wishes

Phil

[belinda]

Good Point

Maybe he tried the knife and it for whatever reason didn't work. He needed to wipe his hands he had to resort to the scissors?

[jerryd]

Hi all!

A few years back the use of scissors crossed my mind with Eddowes as well. I thought they may have been used on her cheeks to make the "V" cuts under the eyes.

Charles Ludwig was another very interesting hairdresser suspect. If I am not mistaken, he was incarcerated at the time of some of the C5. If you subscribe to the "multiple Jacks theory" though, he could be a viable suspect.

jerryd

[Adam Went]

It might be worthwhile doing a bit of an experiment on this theory. Organise a few samples of aprons which match the one Kate was wearing as closely as possible, then try ordinary scissors, fabric scissors, sharp knife, blunt knife, wet cloth, partly damp cloth, dry cloth, etc.....just to see what sort of results you get. Anyone?

Cheers,
Adam.

[belinda]

Yes! We need to do some experiments. I've been looking up some online sources for information

http://www.fashion-era.com/shopping_in_the_past.htm#The%20London%20East%20End%20Sweat%20Shop%20Tailoring%20Trade

Note the picture on the front of this book

http://www.amazon.com/Victorian-London-Street-Historic-Photographs/dp/0486281213/ref=pd_sim_b_29

[Phil Carter]

Factors

It might be worthwhile doing a bit of an experiment on this theory. Organise a few samples of aprons which match the one Kate was wearing as closely as possible, then try ordinary scissors, fabric scissors, sharp knife, blunt knife, wet cloth, partly damp cloth, dry cloth, etc.....just to see what sort of results you get. Anyone?

Cheers,
Adam.

Hello Adam,

If one was to do this, then one has to consider the lighting conditions, the temperature (cold/damp in the air), the sharpness of any given pair of scissors, and the fact that the person who committed Eddowes murder was in great haste, for fear of being caught. Also it must be remembered that the area was totally silent, and the surrounding buildings would cause echo. So each noise may attract attention. In addition, time used would certainly become a factor. This would have to be a pretty clinical experiment for it to have any full authenticity, would it not?

best wishes

Phil

best wishes

Phil