Jack And A Pair Of Scissors?

[belinda]

Something on another thread got me thinking about the possiblity that Jack may have carried a pair of scissors.

It's a remote possibility but the description of the piece of apron removed from Catharine Eddowes got me thinking. It is described as a clean cut.

Years of on and off sewing has shown me that you can only get a really clean cut with scissors.

Now I've never tried to cut fabric with a knife as sharp as Jack was carrying so I don't know whether that would leave the kind of cut described. Also the way he held it as he was cutting would affect the fabric.

There seems to be confusion over whether she was actually wearing it or not.

So could Jack have been carrying a pair of scissors with him?

[Madam Red]

Did someone say, Jack and a pair of scissors?!



*cough* *cough* Sorry, was reminded of anime version of JtR.



In all seriousness, you make an excellent point.

With regular or even fabric scissors, I still find trouble cutting through. And imagine doing that in pitch darkness and under fear of getting caught. Near impossible.

But what about the knives of an upholsterer? Wouldn't those work as well?

[wolfie1]

Something on another thread got me thinking about the possiblity that Jack may have carried a pair of scissors.

It's a remote possibility but the description of the piece of apron removed from Catharine Eddowes got me thinking. It is described as a clean cut.

Years of on and off sewing has shown me that you can only get a really clean cut with scissors.

Now I've never tried to cut fabric with a knife as sharp as Jack was carrying so I don't know whether that would leave the kind of cut described. Also the way he held it as he was cutting would affect the fabric.

There seems to be confusion over whether she was actually wearing it or not.

So could Jack have been carrying a pair of scissors with him?

As a hobby sewer, I agree, it would also depend on the type of fabric, the thread count and texture etc.
Back in the day the fabric worn by the working classes would most likely have been a calico, cotton, a rough texture type of material.
It may have not been an easy task to cut cleanly, it would have only been possible with scissors, I doubt any knife could, or would, cut cleanly without leaving threads due to the need to apply force either up or down to obtain the required grip at the start of the fabric, prior to cutting or scissoring a straight line.

[Cap'n Jack]

I always entertained the fairly daft notion that the killer carried with him parts of a broken mirror, in that he killed the victims with fractured images of himself.

[belinda]

I always entertained the fairly daft notion that the killer carried with him parts of a broken mirror, in that he killed the victims with fractured images of himself.

Noticed your location do you have loads and loads of money

I've always liked Bergerac

If it was Calico it would have been very hard to cut with a knife. I've got some costume history books I'll look them up and see if I can find any references.

I always imagined it as a small piece of apron. There doesn't seem to be any information on the size of the piece or the actual apron.

[Trevor Marriott]

Noticed your location do you have loads and loads of money

I've always liked Bergerac

If it was Calico it would have been very hard to cut with a knife. I've got some costume history books I'll look them up and see if I can find any references.

I always imagined it as a small piece of apron. There doesn't seem to be any information on the size of the piece or the actual apron.

Some on here would suggest that the apron piece was very large but in reality it was small. When found it was decsribed as being screwed up. You try screwing up a large piece of cloth. almost impossible as it ufolds itself.

[Adam Went]

It's a good suggestion actually, but I don't think a normal pair of scissors would have cut through fabric cleanly either. And fabric scissors? He surely can't have planned that they might have come in handy at some point that night.

Here's a thought.....the apron was apparently soaked with blood. Fabric, or most materials for that matter, are easier to cut through when they are wet. Maybe, he really did cut the section off with his knife, which would have been reasonably sharp anyway, and the appearance of a clean cut was helped by the apron being wet (plus it had been raining that night as well.)

Cheers,
Adam.

[Trevor Marriott]

It's a good suggestion actually, but I don't think a normal pair of scissors would have cut through fabric cleanly either. And fabric scissors? He surely can't have planned that they might have come in handy at some point that night.

Here's a thought.....the apron was apparently soaked with blood. Fabric, or most materials for that matter, are easier to cut through when they are wet. Maybe, he really did cut the section off with his knife, which would have been reasonably sharp anyway, and the appearance of a clean cut was helped by the apron being wet (plus it had been raining that night as well.)

Cheers,
Adam.

The apron piece when found was not soaked with blood it was spotted with blood. This makes a big difference to a number of issues related to the murder

[wolfie1]

It's a good suggestion actually, but I don't think a normal pair of scissors would have cut through fabric cleanly either. And fabric scissors? He surely can't have planned that they might have come in handy at some point that night.

Here's a thought.....the apron was apparently soaked with blood. Fabric, or most materials for that matter, are easier to cut through when they are wet. Maybe, he really did cut the section off with his knife, which would have been reasonably sharp anyway, and the appearance of a clean cut was helped by the apron being wet (plus it had been raining that night as well.)

Cheers,
Adam.

Any ordinary type of scissors will cut through average fabric, excepting canvas type of material or upholstery fabric, if they are kept sharp and at the ready. Perhaps scissors are tools of the trade and therefore carried about on his/her person in a usual fashion.

[Pablito]

sounds like a hairdresser to me. Any hairdresser suspects?... Sweeney Todd? lol

[Pontius2000]

sounds like a hairdresser to me. Any hairdresser suspects?... Sweeney Todd? lol

I don't know if that question was a joke or serious but yes, suspects Koslowski and Kosminski were both hairdressers.

[Archaic]

1880's Fabric

Hi everyone.

It seems to me that the fabric of the apron was likely to be quite old, shabby, heavily used, and washed many times (very roughly by hand with
boiling water, harsh soap/bluing, wooden stirrers, and a raspy washboard), so it's likely to have gotten thinner and been rather worn out.

This would have weakened the fibers and made it easier to cut/tear.

Modern fabrics are much more durable than c.1880's fabrics, so it's difficult to compare them.

Best regards,
Archaic

[cappuccina]

I agree, Archaic!

I am one of the few (older parents ) who still makes rags out of old clothes (for dusting, garage work, etc). I can tear threadbare towels into rags without cutting them at all...

Also, I have thought for quite a while that Jack may have been a furrier's assistnat, in which case, a furrier's knife which is "wickedly sharp" could have cut through cloth and a lot of other things very quickly and easily...

While the pic below is a modern one, the knife design has not changed a lot...



Here's an old one:



Note the small "hook" on the end of the old one for tearing through flesh...

[belinda]

Wow this has grown.

Wear is another important factor and the apron had all ready been torn as Kate had to mend it or maybe she even got it that way.

An itinerant Barber would possibly carry scissors with him on the off chance of a job

[wolfie1]

I don't know if that question was a joke or serious but yes, suspects Koslowski and Kosminski were both hairdressers.

Or a tailor.