Leather Apron

[Bridewell]

"The man suspected - rightly or wrongly - of being him is a person of weak physique, and but a short time ago underwent a very painful operation."

Echo, 11th September 1888

"He did not go into the yard twice out of curiosity. He had been under an operation at the hospital." Times 20th September 1888

Interesting coincidence.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Observer]

Hello Roy. Thanks. Then what did John Richardson mean when he indicated that the violent chap was the REAL "Leather Apron" and that many in the neighbourhood thought him responsible for the murders?

Cheers.
LC

So suddenly Richardson is a reliable witness? To some he lies his butt off regarding his actions at the time of the Annie Chapman murder, but it now seems he was an authority on the life and times of Leather Apron.

Observer

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Colin. Yes, indeed.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hi Mike

The experts of the time thought differently. They seemed to think the murderer possessed considerable strength.

Regards

Observer

Pee-wee Herman could bring down Hulk Hogan with a simple cord as a ligature from behind. This type of attack was never considered until the murder of Rose Mylett, by then it was too late.

Just something to consider...

Regards, Jon S.

[Observer]

Pee-wee Herman could bring down Hulk Hogan with a simple cord as a ligature from behind. This type of attack was never considered until the murder of Rose Mylett, by then it was too late.

Just something to consider...

Regards, Jon S.

I doubt whether Pee Wee Herman would be able to reach that far.

Rose Mylett was a Ripper victim?

A ligature would leave marks. I doubt whether the mutilation to the throats of the victims caused by the knife would obliterate all traces of a ligature. I'd also suggest that there are other clues which point to the physical prowess of the murderer other than his ability to render his victim senseless. The experts of the time realised that the long deep cuts to the body, the ferocious mutilations themselves, pointed to the perpetrator having a strong arm. In short a powerful man.

Regards

Observer

[Observer]

Interesting coincidence.

Regards, Bridewell.

Hi Bridewell

Coincidence indeed. I could be incorrect, but Cadoche had an operation involving his waterworks, so to speak, whereas the individual mentioned in the newspaper article had a boil removed from his neck.

Regards

Observer

[Bridewell]

Waterworks

Hi Bridewell

I could be incorrect, but Cadoche had an operation involving his waterworks, so to speak.

Regards

Observer

Two visits in quick succession to the privy is suggestive of waterworks, but do you know of any source for that? I'd be really grateful if you can point me towards something, because all I've found is Cadosch's own claim that he had been 'under an operation at the hospital'.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Roy Corduroy]

Hello Roy. Thanks. Then what did John Richardson mean when he indicated that the violent chap was the REAL "Leather Apron" and that many in the neighbourhood thought him responsible for the murders?

Thank you

Then, help me out Lynn, or anyone. When did John Richardson say about "a violent chap, the real Leather Apron." This was not in his inquest testimony, right.

Roy

[lynn cates]

reporter

Hello Roy. Actually, that was recorded by a news reporter who was having a walk round the neighbourhood with John. (I think he was from "The Echo.")

That was some time after Annie's murder.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Rose Mylett was a Ripper victim?

A ligature would leave marks. I doubt whether the mutilation to the throats of the victims caused by the knife would obliterate all traces of a ligature. ....

I'm sure you've read all there is to read on the Mylett case, and Dr. Brownfields conjecture as to how the ligature mark 'could' be obliterated.

The experts of the time realised that the long deep cuts to the body, the ferocious mutilations themselves, pointed to the perpetrator having a strong arm.

Strong knife maybe, ...but strong arm?

In short a powerful man.

The suggested descriptions whom the police showed an interest in didn't support the powerfull man theory.
If anything, only short stature & medium build.

I can't see how a long deep cut through soft tissue indicates a powerfull man.
Butchers come in all shapes & sizes...


Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

powerful

Hello Jon. Given that you are right in that the mutilations showed no special signs of a powerful man, don't you think that the strangulations and take downs were such a sign?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Given that you are right in that the mutilations showed no special signs of a powerful man, don't you think that the strangulations and take downs were such a sign?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.
If we had a clearer idea as to how they were strangled, ligature or manually, or even suffocated? In so far as takedown goes, there was probably a variety of methods used from Tabram or Nichols through to Kelly, assuming she was the last of the series.

I don't see any set pattern, and neither Stride nor Eddowes presented a physical challenge. Kelly might have if indications are correct that she fought back. Chapman & Tabram or Nichols might have been a problem due to their size but Chapman was apparently not well, and Nichols & Tabram might have been 3 sheets to the wind anyway.

Who knows...

Regards, Jon S.

[Observer]

Two visits in quick succession to the privy is suggestive of waterworks, but do you know of any source for that? I'd be really grateful if you can point me towards something, because all I've found is Cadosch's own claim that he had been 'under an operation at the hospital'.

Regards, Bridewell.

Hi Bridewell

Thinking back, the only source that springs to mind is something I read a long time ago in one of the many books devoted to Jack the Ripper. I can't recall the book in question, and it did not stipulate the reason for Cadosch's hospital stay, but rather the author speculated as you did, that because Cadosch visited the privy twice in quick succession perhaps a urinary problem was the reason for the operation.

I would suggest that the hospital in question was The London Hospital, and as they hold an extensive archive, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that they have Cadosch's operation details on record.

Regards

Observer

[Observer]

Hi Wickerman

I'm no expert on the wounds or marks left behind by the use of a ligature, but I would assume that the marks would be visible all around the neck, therefore visible , if a ligature was used, on Polly Nichols neck at least. Annie Chapmans throat wounds circled her neck, so I can see a problem with detecting ligature marks here. Eddowes similar to Nichols. Kelly, extensive wounds all around the neck, so a problem with detecting ligature marks again.

As you point out Dr Brownfield provided an account of how ligature marks could be masked by the extensive cutting of a victims neck. But I feel if Nichol's and Eddowes had been strangled with a ligature then there would have been visible marks of the ligature where the neck was uninjured by the knife.

Butchering dead animals by the way is an arduous and physically demanding job.

Regards

Observer

[lynn cates]

bruising

Hello Jon. Thanks. Fair point about the take down.

But can we not rule out ligature in Polly and Annie's cases, given the bruises corresponding to thumbs and fingers?

Cheers.
LC