Heneage Court

[waterloo]

I must apologise but I seem to be getting somewhat obsessed by the location of Heneage Court and its posible importance in the investigation.

I am new to the boards but have read a few books and carried out a little research over the years.

I see no reason why PC Spicer would have mad up his story. Yes he may well have added some bits to it to flavour it up so to speak but there is no reson to suspect it didnt take place.

Spicer states he arrested somebody frequenting Heneage Court which is off of Heneage Street. What is most interesting is that the entrance works out to be at about no 13 from what I can make out.
I believe this was the home of James Hardiman who also had very strong connections with the murder scene at Hanbury Street.

Add to this the fact that Mitre Square is very close to a Heneage Lane then I continue to suspect that Heneage Street, Court or Lane holds the key!

[DVV]

Hi Waterloo,

Your name reminds me how glorious is French military past.

Some, I suspect, may object that we were unable to establish our rule in Canada. But the truth is that we didn't want to have anything to do with Celine Dion and Robert Charlebois.

Others, even more awfully misled, may recall how easily Hitler journeyed to Paris in 1940. I'm sincerely sorry that they can't acknowledge the obvious and heroic temerity of our fallback option. Indeed, the strategy was so subtile and bold that the Allies, stunned at such an extraordinary and truly antic valiance, failed to react accordingly and complete what had so resolutely been achieved by the French armies.

I don't blame the Allies for their lack of (quick enough) understanding.
Who could expect human beings to be that brave ?

Amitiés,
David

[The Grave Maurice]

Hey!....I like Robert Charlebois.

[DVV]

Me too.
He really makes me feel irie.

Amitiés,
David

[doris]

Hi Waterloo,

Your name reminds me how glorious is French military past.

Some, I suspect, may object that we were unable to establish our rule in Canada. But the truth is that we didn't want to have anything to do with Celine Dion and Robert Charlebois.

Others, even more awfully misled, may recall how easily Hitler journeyed to Paris in 1940. I'm sincerely sorry that they can't acknowledge the obvious and heroic temerity of our fallback option. Indeed, the strategy was so subtile and bold that the Allies, stunned at such an extraordinary and truly antic valiance, failed to react accordingly and complete what had so resolutely been achieved by the French armies.

I don't blame the Allies for their lack of (quick enough) understanding.
Who could expect human beings to be that brave ?

Amitiés,
David

ye gods, that made me laugh.

[spyglass]

Hi Waterloo!
I questioned the likelyhood of the possibilty of Spicer mixing up Heanage street with Heanage lane on these boards some weeks ago.
What made me question it was, although on the map of that period, Heanage street looks quite a distance from Mitre Square, however when I visited it recently, as soon as you enter out of St James Passage you find yourself in whats now called Heanage Court. I cant remember now if Heanage Street is still there or has been incorperated into Heanage Court.
It must be remembered that there was a lot of bomb damage during the war,ths changing the shape of the area.

[waterloo]

Heneage Court

Hello Spyglass

Gad to see someone is showing some interest. I guess this Heneage thing is a bit too different to stimulate much interest.

I believe the Heneage Court you speak of is new.

Heneage Street does still exist and I believe as previously mentioned on the boards the numbering is much the same.

Looking at the old maps at about number 13 Heneage Street there is an opening into a court yard. I believe this is the courtyard spoken of by Spicer.

13 Heneage Street as I mentioned was the home (I believe) of James Hardiman, a suspect according to some.

Spicer would not be patrolling close to Mitre Square as this was in the City area as I am sure you know,

I do agree with you that it is stange that the murder at Mitre Sqaure is close to Henage Lane and that Spicer states he arrested someone in Heneage Court off Heneage Street on the same night.

What about this idea. Perhaps Jack was meeting sombody at Heneage Court off Henage Street but went to the wrong location and anded up finding Eddowes. Killed her and then made his appointment at the correct location a short time later where he was caught by Spicer. This would explain how he strayed into the City area.

Probably all nonsence

[spyglass]

HI Waterloo!
Your theory is possible, like so many but I guess we will never know that for sure.
I do agree with you though that there is possibly something to Spicers story, and considering that he spoke about the incident many years later as an old man, I do find it possible that he could have been confused over the two Heneage's.
For some reason many ripper historians dont take Spicer seriously, but I like you feel it should'nt be dismissed out of hand.

[spyglass]

p.s.
And of course your correct about Spicers beat, and thatdoes put a spanner in the works concerning any mix up.

[Stephen Thomas]

Others, even more awfully misled, may recall how easily Hitler journeyed to Paris in 1940. I'm sincerely sorry that they can't acknowledge the obvious and heroic temerity of our fallback option. Indeed, the strategy was so subtile and bold that the Allies, stunned at such an extraordinary and truly antic valiance, failed to react accordingly and complete what had so resolutely been achieved by the French armies.

Hi David

Like we say 'selling like hot cakes' and you say 'selling like chocolate croissants', what's the French equivalent of 'like a knife through butter'?

All the best

[DVV]

Comme dans du beurre, my dear Stephen !

Playing coward is something Sun-Tzu himself didn't dare to dream.

Hitler could never be the same once he realized the trap he was in.

And actually proceeded to Stalingrad to get some relief.

Amitiés,
David

[Stephen Thomas]

Comme dans du beurre, my dear Stephen !

Merci, mon ami

[DVV]

But mind you, Stephen.
Butter is for the Northern French, not for us.

We are the tribe of the olive oil.

We had sort of an Italian Kommandantur in my village.
Somehow an indirect rule.

Is that the reason why I am so British ?

[Uncle Jack]

Isn't this thread about Heneage Court?!

I too am interested in Heneage Court and Spicer's story. I think the description of his suspect (the "respectable doctor") kind of rules out James Hardiman but if I remember someone briefly mentioned that the description of the "respectable doctor" resembled Thomas Barnardo who was arrested on the morning of the double event.

[The Rookie Detective]

Isn't this thread about Heneage Court?!

I too am interested in Heneage Court and Spicer's story. I think the description of his suspect (the "respectable doctor") kind of rules out James Hardiman but if I remember someone briefly mentioned that the description of the "respectable doctor" resembled Thomas Barnardo who was arrested on the morning of the double event.

You're absolutely correct.


The reason why this line of inquiry regarding PC Spicer and the "respectable doctor" is often shut down quickly, is that some people are uncomfortable about considering Barnardo as a suspect; because they fail to see or consider how a man who helped so many children could possibly have been the ripper.

The same mentality that couldn't accept Jimmy Saville could have been the evil predatory monster he was, or can't accept that there are priests who commit crimes against children.

The problem stems partially from the idea that it's morally wrong to question someone like Barnardo, who was essentially a self-proclaimed man of God...but in reality, he was just another man, and there are those who use religion as a defense against their actions...and Barnardo absolutely had the belief he was untouchable.

He walked free from court 88 times on charges of abduction and other various charges...to which he confessed...and yet he was STILL set free.

There is no man alive who wouldn't feel a sense of ultimate power from that.

That is also why virtually all of this thread up to now has been sabotaged and deliberately saturated with posts that have no connection to the thread. I posted a comment similar to this on another thread recently because I find the attempt to ruin the thread is absolutely childish and disrespectful to the person who initiates their query by opening up a thread in the first place.

It's completely unfair on 'Waterloo' and I find that there's always something to be said about a thread when it's sabotaged from the 2nd post.

In other words Waterloo...you know you're on to something when there are those who try to shut the thread down with ridiculous posts completely unrelated to your initial question.

Now we know that PC Spicer is not the most popular topic of discussion, but that shouldn't be a reason to not discuss the topic at all.

Regarding Barnardo; he had a connection with Stride because he went to the mortuary to identify her as one of the women who was present in the kitchen of the lodging house in which he had visited and spoken to several women. This was only a few days before her murder.

The idea that a "respectable doctor" was seen with bloodied cuffs by PC Spicer and that doctor may have been Barnardo IS absolutely something to question and look at further, especially when we know that Barnardo had been at the lodging house in Flower and Dean street and Stride was there in the kitchen...and then he subsequently goes to the mortuary to confirm it's her...or to make sure she's dead as he was in a rush when he last saw her...


Accept Nothing
Believe Nobody
Challenge Everything
Don't give up


Nice work Waterloo



RD