Other Murderers

[chudmuskett]

Hi all, I was just reading a newspaper article on JTR and in it it said "Probably not JTR but the Embankment Murderer"? What the .... did each area have its own serial killer.? Was there a Stratford Strangler or maybe a Highgate Hacker? Who was the Embankment Killer? Why is there minimal info on him/her? Are there any police reports or photos on the case like here? Basically, where can I find out more? Thanks.

[Hunter]

The Embankment murderer, I believe was the name given to the killer in the Torso murders that happened during the same timeline and into 1889.

Debra Arif could probably verify this.

You can find out more by searching for the torso murders on this site.

[Uncle Jack]

This is the Thames Torso murderer, sometimes known as the Chelsea Dismemberer or the Thames Dismemberer.

[chudmuskett]

Thanks for that guys, I will look into it. Just two questions though. Why isnt there much research on this case? and could JTR and the Embankment Murder be one of the same?

[corey123]

Chud,

This case is studied about as much, Debra Arif is the authoirity on this actually, but we have alot less on that case than we do "Jack the Rippers". Two of the torso murders usually get studied with "Ripperology" the Whitehall torso, and the Pinchin St Arch Torso. Its rare that you have two serial killers killing in the same ground, but we do in 1888 and it makes Jacks story even more interesting.About you second question, it is not very likely that they were one and the same. The biggest difference is this.I wrote this about a couple of months ago, we were discussing Elizabeth Jackson, the only identified torso victim, but it rules the same for all torso victims:

The idea that jackson could be a ripper victim is entertaining, but there are several factors that may make this comparison difficult. I know what most all of you know about the torso murders, and Im no expert(however I believe Debra is the authority on the torso case). She might be able to help me out.

First, if there was another murder after Kelly, I would be supprised if the extent of mutilations were more severe and even shocked if they were the same. The only way I think the mutilations would be as severe as in Kellys case would be if the killer had the same circumstances on his side. It would most likely be indoors, like kelly to let him, again play the fantasy out.

I dont remember where Jacksons torso was found, but the methodology shown by the torso killer would be most likely abducting the women, then disembowling them in a isolated and secure location, then disposal of the limbs. The killer did not try at great lengths, as did Jack the Ripper, to display the body, but tried more to hide them.

I think its likely that she was a ripper victim, but in my opinion, she would have all be there, cut up, but there, all the peices, not scattered about.

I also believe that the killer(s)(torso murderer) more than likely never stopped killing, and probally killed more than those four found. Way more.

In short, from a prolific stand point, two very different distinctive killers are shown. Unless Jack the Ripper had multiple personality disorder, then I highly doubt the chance of the two serial killers being the same.



yours truly

[chudmuskett]

OK, lets say for example he had someone kidnapped at home already to be chopped up (Embankment Murders) but on his way home from work or a night out he then took the opportunity to slice and dice and this became known as the ripper murders. Maybe he was the type of person who if he had food at home he could never say no to a takeaway If the Embankment murders were more serious what if what you are researching here (in Casebook) is just a side line.

[corey123]

Hi Chud,

It would make a very interesting story wouldn't it. However, killers don't act like that. They have a prefered fantasy, and the fantasy of "Jack the Ripper" and the "Thames killer" were two very very different fantasies. This means we have one of two things, two different minds, or one mind suffering from Multi-personality disorder.

We can also look at the murder maps and see two distinctive patterns. We can tell that "Jack the Ripper" traveled by Whitechapel Road and the "Thames killer", well by the river.

Also, the chances of one killer killing with two distincive M.Os at the same time, is very slim.

Like I said previously, even the disposal, which is noexistiant in"Jack the Ripper's" murders, are very different. Also, from 1888, the Thames murders and Jacks were hand and hand, and forever will be. That does, for no reason, mean they were connected, just happened to be killing in close to the same area at the same time.

Yours truly

p.s At the bottom picture, the Macnaughten five were killed almost always in the immediate vicinitty(red), this is from a map outlining the various distances from Whitechapels district, immediate, surrounding, outer, ect.

[chudmuskett]

Corey, thank you so much for the info, its been most interesting. I am going to follow the basis that they were two seperate people because you obviously know more than me. I do now have one other problem though........ Ive now got two cases to solve LOL.

[corey123]

Hi Chud,

Good luck with solving them then. . For a whole century, nobody has been able to do so, what a feat that would be.