Something to chew over

[Maggyann]

I know I haven't posted much but I have read and read and really find the whole site incredibly interesting.

I have typed this post out in word and will put on as an attachment as it is a bit long for a post.
(I know I shiver when I see a great long one *snib* post I mean!)

Anyway you have the choice of bothering to open it and read or not. It is just a rough outline of how I have been spending my time in my search for MJK and the WM in general.

Lately on here there seems to be a lot of repetition of arguments etc so though it is nowhere near as complete nor as accomplished as the theories of my betters the attachment is just the bare bones of my 'theory'. I thought you could all do with someone new on the 'Aunt Sally of Ripperologists' so now I just hope you throw wet sponges rather than cricket balls.............I shall get myself onto a post and wait to be knocked off

[smezenen]

Maggy,
You seem to have a few intersting coincidences there that are worth researching. Its an interesting story even without the attemp to connect it to MJK. as for that attemp I would say you will need more hard fact/evidence before it would be convincing. Writing a book about it would make a good story but I dont think I would put it across as a "case solved" type novel.

[tnb]

Maggy,

Whether or not you have hit on anything close to 'the truth', I must say that was a very interesting read and whether or not it turns out to have anything to do with the Whitechapel murders, the Phoenix Park case sounds fascinating in its own right. It is indeed refreshing to see a different perspective on the case, and whatever the outcome if it makes people think outside the box you have achieved something. I would second smezenen's thoughts about the marketing of your finished project, but obviously that is not our choice to make.

Interestingly, there has been a fair bit of renewed (and serious) interest in Fenian matters on here recently - have you seen this thread:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4007&highlight=Fenian

If you are indeed serious about this project then it may well be worth you getting in touch with Phil Carter (if you haven't already). I have only spoken to him on the boards here and obviously cannot speak for anyone else, but I am pretty sure he would be happy to chew the angle over with you, and it would certainly be interesting to find out whether he has come across the Phoenix Park case in the process of his own research. The Good Michael may be another useful contact for you, although again obviously I can't speak for him.

Have you done any research to try to connect the Dublin and Whitechapel McCarthy's? Fiona Rule, for one, has done some excellent research into Jack McCarthy's family history (get 'the worst street in London' if you haven't got it already, McCarthy interest or not it is outstanding) and it would be a massive point in your favour if you had something to back that connection up. If you have done any degree of genealogical research then I am sure I don't need to tell you that McCarthy is an awfully common name in Ireland!

On the (slightly) more negative side, I must be honest and say that I have always had a bit of a problem with the idea that MJK made up her entire history, even if it may seem more and more likely the longer we cannot find her in any records. My problem, simply, is the sheer amount of detail in her story (as told to Barnett of course). It seems unlikely to me that anyone could make up such a convoluted backstory, whatever their motivation, and not trip themselves up - and even more so, why would they bother? Even were she 'on the run' that tale (if that is what it is) seems unnecessarily complicated. I have always felt that there must be some threads of truth in there on which the other details hang; again, it would of course be a massive point in your favour were you able to tie in at least one detail with a potential origin in 'your' Mary's real backstory - ie was there a French connection (no pun intended) that may explain why she chose to claim to have been to Paris, or did she have an ex-beau or relative who died in some kind of explosion (possibilities?) or industrial accident that may have become a colliery explosion when she began to set her backstory in Wales?

Keep up the good work - others may be more eager to jump on you for all the reasons it is perhaps unlikely to be true, but I for one look forward to hearing more one way or the other. Keep us updated!

[Maggyann]

Thank you both for your responses.
I have been delving yet again today and finding more stuff that seems to come under the heading of 'coincidence' but nothing that could be called substantial proof...yet.

I will keep digging and trying to unravel more threads.

As to the 'back story' we have ref MJK. It really all comes from Joe B. 'repeating' what MJK told him and though it is quite involved I still think it is in large part made up. Perhaps things which happened in the lives of other people which MJK adopted.

It is so frustrating that there are few Irish records for the time period but I will keep trawling through newspaper clippings in the hope of finding something else.

[curious]

I know I haven't posted much but I have read and read and really find the whole site incredibly interesting.

I have typed this post out in word and will put on as an attachment as it is a bit long for a post.
(I know I shiver when I see a great long one *snib* post I mean!)

Anyway you have the choice of bothering to open it and read or not. It is just a rough outline of how I have been spending my time in my search for MJK and the WM in general.

Lately on here there seems to be a lot of repetition of arguments etc so though it is nowhere near as complete nor as accomplished as the theories of my betters the attachment is just the bare bones of my 'theory'. I thought you could all do with someone new on the 'Aunt Sally of Ripperologists' so now I just hope you throw wet sponges rather than cricket balls.............I shall get myself onto a post and wait to be knocked off

Maggie,
Very intriguing take on things.

I'm interested in whether your research has shown Alice to have any artistic talent that was ever spoken of?

lots more questions, of course, but that would seem to be a pivotal one.

curious

[j.r-ahde]

Hello maggyann!

Interesting, but need to hear more, before saying anything definite...

All the best
Jukka

[Phil Carter]

Hello Magyann,

Indeed, this is both interesting and intruiging to my mind. As tnb has suggested, the Fenian link is well worth persuing imho.
Parts of the idea, that Fenians could have been responsible for individual females dying with non-bomb related murders (which the Fenians were mostly known for) have been rejected by some on these boards. I, however, am open enough to see a bigger picture. Whether it be right or wrong, openess to possibilities is important, I feel.

The names and the story of the Pheonix Park incident(s) is something I have been looking at a while now. You are correct. There ARE a few coincidences that are puzzling. If you wish to take contact, you are most welcome to pm or email me.

best wishes

Phil

[curious]

Hello Magyann,

Indeed, this is both interesting and intruiging to my mind. As tnb has suggested, the Fenian link is well worth persuing imho.
Parts of the idea, that Fenians could have been responsible for individual females dying with non-bomb related murders (which the Fenians were mostly known for) have been rejected by some on these boards. I, however, am open enough to see a bigger picture. Whether it be right or wrong, openess to possibilities is important, I feel.

The names and the story of the Pheonix Park incident(s) is something I have been looking at a while now. You are correct. There ARE a few coincidences that are puzzling. If you wish to take contact, you are most welcome to pm or email me.

best wishes

Phil

I would enjoy hearing more about the coincidences as well.

curious