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Hi, does anyone know where I can find a list of Mr Lusks vigilante group if such a thing exist because what I am thinking is that JTR maybe enjoyed the publicity he received, so just assuming that for a moment then assume that JTR happened to be one of Mr Lusks gang, I think it would have probably been quite a buzz for him to commit a crime then watch all your mates run around like headless chickens.
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Hi Chud,
George Lusk only had one 'gang' or committee, this being the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee. The group consisted of a small group of local businessmen and tradesmen who met nightly at the Crown tavern at Mile End Road at 9pm. The committee members did not patrol themselves, but instead employed two private investigators - Charles Le Grand and J.H. Batchelor, who were experts at the 'unraveling of mysteries'. These two men hired, trained, and commanded a group of approximately 20 men, mostly unemployed, and it was this group that would leave the Crown every night just before midnight and patrol their assigned beats. The actual committee members would have revolving nights where, at about 12:30am, they would leave the tavern and do a supervising 'walk-about', making sure the men were on their beats and vigilant.
Charles Le Grand turned out to be a pimp and very violent and eventually fell under the suspicion of Scotland Yard as being Jack the Ripper. While Le Grand's history may have been known to Joseph Aarons (club treasurer and proprietor of the Crown tavern), it is very doubtful it was known to Lusk, who seems to have been a nice man overall. He lost his wife not long before the Ripper murders and would file bankruptcy not long after. There's absolutely no ground to suppose he was the Ripper.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott -
In the 1960's, Lusk's grandson told the London Hospital Gazette that Lusk suspected someone at the London Hospital of having sent him the kidney as a joke, Lusk having done some work there. I personally think it is unlikely he really suspected this and think it most likely that the committee itself hoaxed the 'From hell' letter for financial gain. Although it's quite possible (and ironic) that they had the Ripper in their employ, I seriously doubt Le Grand provided them with the actual kidney of Eddowes as the medical evidence makes it unlikely the kidney was Eddowes' at all.
I hope all this helps.
Yours truly,
Tom WescottComment
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Hi Tom, Thanks for that, very interesting, Ive heard of Grandes connection before. I just thought that (for example) in recent times take Ian Huntly, he was actively involved in the search for the two girls and seemed to get some sort of sadistic pleasure knowing that he was actively in the front line.
All that said I have to say that if it was a member of Lusks group someone would have fallen under suspicion if someone in the group disappeared every time a murder was committed.Last edited by chudmuskett; 02-13-2010, 01:18 AM.Comment
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Whoever the Ripper was, there's little doubt but that he would have been amongst the crowds that formed in the murder sites following the discovery of the bodies. However, I try to avoid too much comparison between serial killers, or 'profiling', as the professionals have made such a muck job of it and can't agree amongst themselves, that it has little or no credibility now. Having said that, Le Grand is the only legitimate contemporary suspect who can be placed in the neighborhood of Berner Street in the very hour of her murder and, indeed, inside the walls of the Berner Street club in the week or two before the murder. The newspapers are full of 'humorous' stories of the vigilance men being stopped by the police for acting suspicious, but immediately let go upon proving they were committee members. It is known the committee worked with the police and shared information, allowing Le Grand to know the various police beats. And, of course, he would have placed his own men. Basically, he was a violent sociopath with free ticket to do as he liked in the East End at the height of the Ripper murders. But enough about Le Grand.
The way Lusk and his committee were portrayed in the Michael Caine 'Jack the Ripper' film of 1988 in no way resembles the reality of a bunch of men sitting around writing letters requesting rewards from the government and donations from private individuals.
Yours truly,
Tom WescottComment
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I found some info on Grande in the old bailey website:
but from what I read he favoured a gun to a knife also why doesnt Grande appear on the casebook suspect list and where can I find out more about him?
Just found this also, looks like he got 20 years in 1891, does anyone know the fate of Grande?
Last edited by chudmuskett; 02-13-2010, 01:40 AM.Comment
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Hi Chud,
He's not on the suspect list because, although I've been tracking him since 2006, he only in the last couple of months was discovered (by Mike Covell) to have been suspected by Scotland Yard. To date, only two essays have been published talking about him, Gerry Nixon's 'Le Grand of the Strand' published in Ripperologist magazine in 1998 and mine in Ripper Notes in 2006. A small write-up and the only known photo of him are to be found in Evans and Rumbelow's 'Scotland Yard Investigates'. As we speak, I'm writing a fresh essay for publication followed by the first full-length book on him. You can read Gerry Nixon's groundbreaking essay in the Dissertations section here at the Casebook.
His weapons arsenal was pretty large, including knives, guns, knuckledusters, and explosives. He was habitually abusive to prostitutes, his own and others, but much, much more needs to be learned about him.
Yours truly,
Tom WescottComment
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