Pentagram

[Daniel Gillotti]

pentagram

Hi Doris,

It was intentionally misspelled; or "misspelt" where I come from. They're would be correct of course but since the original quote said utter and I was implying "udder" in relation to the other word, I misspelled it; as udder and tit would be the same thing in my neck of the woods- no pun intended.

Dan, its good to see you weathered the initial storm. ( that means you hung around despite the criticism)

Hunter:

Thanks, I almost got KO'ed and thrown-out the ring, lol...

Best Regards...Dan

[Ally]

Hi Alley:

I believe I have the reason for the NECKS, I'm currently working on that as I type this thread; at this time I decided not to disclose it until further research is done. However, I'll say this it is definitely intentional like an offering to Satan, Egbo, Ekpe...whatever? I'll let everyone know soon.

Thanks Dan...

Uh..yeah. Right. Okie then. So tell me this. In your scenario, he manages to find prostitutes in the exact right spot, at the exact right time who just happen to have the last name he needs. He walks up to them and goes, "Eh what's your last name? Smith...no I need a "n" Not tonight, no thanks, Brown?...nope sorry, Jacobs....no, Addison...no, Nichols Finally!!" Would this behavior not seem oh I don't know...odd? There is absolutely no way he could have pre-arranged a meeting with Eddowes, and it's highly unlikely with Chapman and he just happens to stumble onto Kelly who just happens to have the exact right name and live in a place that completes the pentagram?

Or are you assuming he happened to stumble upon the perfect named woman the first time out every time?

[Magpie]

If we are going to consider the possibility of occult-motivated crimes, then we should include the Black Circle crimes in Norway (Vikernes, Eithun, Snorr et al.) which, if nothing else, would seem to call for us to lower the age estimates for the Ripper.

[Daniel Gillotti]

Pentagram

Uh..yeah. Right. Okie then. So tell me this. In your scenario, he manages to find prostitutes in the exact right spot, at the exact right time who just happen to have the last name he needs. He walks up to them and goes, "Eh what's your last name? Smith...no I need a "n" Not tonight, no thanks, Brown?...nope sorry, Jacobs....no, Addison...no, Nichols Finally!!" Would this behavior not seem oh I don't know...odd? There is absolutely no way he could have pre-arranged a meeting with Eddowes, and it's highly unlikely with Chapman and he just happens to stumble onto Kelly who just happens to have the exact right name and live in a place that completes the pentagram?

Or are you assuming he happened to stumble upon the perfect named woman the first time out every time?

Alley:

LOL...your right point taken, if you remember D'onston was in the Hospital for a back injury? for 136 days! 150 yards from the first murder;he was there before the murders began and left, I think a week after the last murder...

There he could of gotten access to medical records and the names of the woman who were treated there; they would have given their Christian names if they wanted to get treated.

Plus he new a lot of them, he was a frequent customer and I'm sure they would have felt comfortable telling him their real names; if I remember at that time in white chapel alone there were estimated 2000 prostitutes,

Best Regards, Dan...

[Daniel Gillotti]

Pentagram

Uh..yeah. Right. Okie then. So tell me this. In your scenario, he manages to find prostitutes in the exact right spot, at the exact right time who just happen to have the last name he needs. He walks up to them and goes, "Eh what's your last name? Smith...no I need a "n" Not tonight, no thanks, Brown?...nope sorry, Jacobs....no, Addison...no, Nichols Finally!!" Would this behavior not seem oh I don't know...odd? There is absolutely no way he could have pre-arranged a meeting with Eddowes, and it's highly unlikely with Chapman and he just happens to stumble onto Kelly who just happens to have the exact right name and live in a place that completes the pentagram?

Or are you assuming he happened to stumble upon the perfect named woman the first time out every time?

Alley:

I read your thread again and I love it; you couldn't express the point I'm trying to make any better. The fact that the C5 were murdered in the exact order of a 5 point pentagram to spell and rearranges back into NECKS with their first initials of their last name, is, for a lack of a better word, astronomical! and have all 5 of there NECKS slit open on top off that to...

If this is true we have premeditated murder/ black magic, human blood offering via through their NECKS. I believe D'onston 5 blood soaked white dress ties if true is connected to the 5 points of the pentagram.

Best Regards, Dan...

[The Good Michael]

Dan,

Why? Really why?

Mike

[Mike Covell]

The theiry that the murders formed some sort of Pentagram, Cross, etc is not new, with several theorists over the years suggesting it,
Robert D'Onston Stephenson
Leonard Gribble
Francis King
Aleister Crowley
Bernard O'Donnell
Ivor Edwards

The problem is, who to include and who to leave out of the theory. For example, Crowley changed his number from 7 to 5, and Stephenson couldn't make his mind up on the number of victims.

Stephenson favoured the Black Magic motive, a theory that made people believe he was a Black Magician, however, he failed to properly translate his source material.

The original French text of Eliphas Levi's Dogme et Rituel de la Haute Magie refers to straining a concoction of herbs through a piece of linen woven by a female prostitute. The word used for linen is “linge”.

A.E.Waite’s translation, made in 1886, and a part of the The Mysteries Of Magic, A Digest Of The Writings Of Eliphas Levi, reads as “…a cloth woven BY a female prostitute”.

In translating “cloth” back into French, we get “tissu”, which Robert D’Onston Stephenson could possibly have read as referring to an “organ” OF a female prostitute.

[Mike Covell]

On the subject of satanic and occult murders, I would suggest you read Cult Killers by Frank Moorhouse, which features 12 cases with satanic overtones, although none of them appear to be purely satanic. These include cases of pentagrams carved on the bodies or left at the crime scene.

[Magpie]

On the subject of satanic and occult murders, I would suggest you read Cult Killers by Frank Moorhouse, which features 12 cases with satanic overtones, although none of them appear to be purely satanic. These include cases of pentagrams carved on the bodies or left at the crime scene.

Thanks for the tip Mike.

I'd also suggest "Lords Of Chaos" by Michael Moynihan and Didrik Søderlind.

I'd also point out that the pentagram as the highest form of Satanic symbol is largely due to Dennis Wheatley and Hammer films--there were a lot of satanic and occult symbols of equal or greater significance to the pentagram prior to the 20th century. Also, such symbols would likely have meant little or nothing to you average joe in those days--unlike today where everyone knows--or think they know--what those symbols are and mean.

[Magpie]

The fact that the C5 were murdered in the exact order of a 5 point pentagram ...

With respect, but if you murder any five people (or commit any 5 acts in 5 different places) you will be able to draw a pentagram between them--unless they were committed in a straight line (which would probably be more significant, even if just statistically).

It's no different to throwing 3 coins in the air and letting them fall--you'll always be able to connect them into a triangle...

[Mike Covell]

No worries Magpie, they are fairly cheap and easy to obtain via Amazon and other internet retailers.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Daniel,
Your theory is as good as any others on this site, I have a suspicion that the necks idea is a form of alphabetical numerology, rather like my much ridiculed 39 theory, but it does make into a good thread, and evokes much discission, albeit heated at times.
Actually the number 39 has signifcance with the occult, as you may be aware, and who knows, your premeditated angle, might go hand in hand with my thoughts on this matter.
If you have not had a chance to familar yourself with the 39 significance, here is a quickie.
39 stab wounds [ Tabram] also aged 39
Nichols killed 31st of the 8th month=39
Chapman on the 8th 31+ 8 =39
Stride/Eddowes 30th of the 9th month =39
Kelly killed on the 9th of the month, previous victims the 30th=39
39 days elapsing.
kelly killed at 26 Dorset street, in room 13 =39
At least two letters written to the police mention the number 39
The names of the victims, using the letters Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, Long Liz, Eddowes, Kelly=39
If one call that cheating try this.
Martha, Polly, Annie, Lizzie, Catherine, Mary jane =39
or
Martha, Polly, Annie, Lizzie, Kate, Mary jane kelly=39.
All great numerology , or is it?
Was these murders premeditated, were the dates prearranged, and the victims?
Was this a occult series?
Regards Richard.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Richard!

Well, could you, please, tell me:

What does 39 exactly mean?!

All the best
Jukka

[Bob Hinton]

Coincidence versus Design

The problem with doing this entire ‘take the first letter of this and mix it with the birthday of the victim’s cat’ etc is you have no basis for a beginning. What do you take as the start? What do you take as the end? For example let us take the first letters of the names the victims were known by:

Polly = P
Annie = A
Elizabeth= E
Catherine= C
Mary= M

Which give you P, A, E, C, M. Now out of those initial letters I can form Prostitutes Are Eviscerated, Cut, Mutilated.

Take my birthday 18 January 1956. Now write this numerically. 18-01-1956. Now add them together and you get 1975, add those digits together and you get 22 add 2+2 and you get 4 which is exactly the number of brothers and sisters I have! Now there is nothing magical about that it is just that by juggling various letters and numbers around you can arrive at just about anything. Just think how many times the number 4 crops up? There are four cardinal points to the compass; the cross Jesus was crucified on had four ends and so on. Try it with your own birthday and see what you can create.

I conducted experiments years ago (I’ll see if I still have the article somewhere) to show that to murder people in an exact pattern in a city like London is practically impossible. If someone wanted to do that he would simply kidnap the required number of victims, take them to a desolate area such as Dartmoor, murder them and place the bodies precisely. Then you would have a pattern!

[Mike Covell]

Hello Richard!

Well, could you, please, tell me:

What does 39 exactly mean?!

All the best
Jukka

Have a look here Jukka,

http://www.wisdomportal.com/Numbers/39.html