Hand Writing Experts

[chudmuskett]

Hi, I just wondered if anyone watched two programs on the TV that linked individuals to Ripper letters. I cant remember the name of the first but what they did was got a hand writing expert who linked the dear boss letter to a Star journalist and the second program was a mystery quest where a hand writing expert linked characteristics in Tumbletys hand writing to characteristics in the from hell letters. I really would be interested to find out others views on this, is this evidence the hand writing expert gave conclusive? If so why arnt there people jumping for joy that something has been solved. If not, where do we go next?

Here is an example from the 2nd program. The loops on the "y" on the original letter match the loops "y" on a Tumblety sample of writing.

[smezenen]

I'm not sure anything has ever been proven conclusively in the handwriting samples between Tumblety and any of ripper letters/cards. His Y is simular at first glance but the rest of the letters are way off. Even if you could link the letters how do you prove he killed the women and didnt just write the letters as a hoax?

[chudmuskett]

I'm not sure anything has ever been proven conclusively in the handwriting samples between Tumblety and any of ripper letters/cards. His Y is simular at first glance but the rest of the letters are way off. Even if you could link the letters how do you prove he killed the women and didnt just write the letters as a hoax?

Hi Smez, you are right, this may not prove anything but obviously I couldnt upload the whole program. Also, what I meant by conclusive is that if a writing expert says the letters are by the same person then do we at some point have to say OK thats the end of that part of the investigation, I didnt mean conclusive as in the case solved, only that letter. It seems to me that there are many people who would like to not accept any evidence in order to keep this case alive. I know it wont prove who killed the unfortunate ladies but when do we stop and say yes, thats enough evidence to turn the page onto the next peice of the puzzle.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

I find it possible, that a letter/card from the real Ripper did find its way to the files of The Scotland Yard, but was thought to be just a hoax among others...

All the best
Jukka

[Hunter]

... what I meant by conclusive is that if a writing expert says the letters are by the same person then do we at some point have to say OK thats the end of that part of the investigation, I didnt mean conclusive as in the case solved, only that letter. It seems to me that there are many people who would like to not accept any evidence in order to keep this case alive. I know it wont prove who killed the unfortunate ladies but when do we stop and say yes, thats enough evidence to turn the page onto the next peice of the puzzle.

I believe that Tumblety had many of his corespondences written by others, so I'm not sure that was even his handwriting; could be.

Having served on jury duty several times I can say that so called "experts" can be used to skew opinion one way or another. The biggest problem in this field is the tendancy to reach a conclusion first and then, find or even concoct evidence to support it.

[Bob Hinton]

Handwriting Comparison

I saw the programme where the sample of Tumblety's handwriting was compared and it is is worthless.

For the comparison to be valid you would have to compare thousands of samples of handwriting. If after doing that only one was found to be similar, that would be valid, but for all we know every American wrote his 'y's like that.

[DVV]

True enough, Bob,

would this also apply to Toppy...?

Amitiés,
David

[chudmuskett]

I saw the programme where the sample of Tumblety's handwriting was compared and it is is worthless.

For the comparison to be valid you would have to compare thousands of samples of handwriting. If after doing that only one was found to be similar, that would be valid, but for all we know every American wrote his 'y's like that.

Thats very true, I know my own father has a very old style of handwriting which could be matched to anyone within the London area between 1940 - 1960ish but wouldnt handwriting work like accents. Surely hand writing would be different in different areas, especially 100 years ago.

[Bob Hinton]

Yes but

you would have to show that the suspects handwriting contained something unique to the suspect, as I say thousands of people may have written their 'y's like that, we weren't shown any other samples.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

*headdesk* In all these years (or should that be decades?) and people are still looking at the exact same things (and the exact same lacklustre, innocent-of-the-Whitechapel-murders 'suspects').

Why can't they make an interesting documentary about the Ripper? Without suspects (or at least the same old clichéd boring ones that crop up time and again with absolutely no evidence to back up the theories for them) or letters. The letters are all almost certainly fake (wasn't it proven that the Dear Boss and Saucy Jacky ones were the work of a journalist?) save for the small possibility of the From Hell letter.

It's just going around in circles and wasting time and boring the crap out of the viewers of these documentaries!

[Bob Hinton]

True, but I think you will like the new documentary that is being made as we speak. This is 2 hours long and is not suspect oriented, simply a group of knowledgable people talking about the case and leaving the viewer to make up their own minds.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Now that sounds more like it.

[Hunter]

These endless suspect based documentaries, from Tumblety to Mann are done because the producers believe the average layman wants answers instead of figuring it out for themselves. They have good precedent to base their assumtions on when one considers many of the best selling JTR books in the past thirty years. I hope the new documentary is shown in the states. It would be a refreshing change.

[chudmuskett]

True, but I think you will like the new documentary that is being made as we speak. This is 2 hours long and is not suspect oriented, simply a group of knowledgable people talking about the case and leaving the viewer to make up their own minds.

Make their mind up? I dought very much if knowledgable people could tell us anything we couldnt find in the last book that was published or the last program that was on TV. The fact of the matter is we have all the evidence we ever likely to get, we are going round in circles. The only way forward is backwards in a time machine. But because its such an interesting and unique case I will carry on searching, watching and hoping just like everyone else who logs on here

[Bob Hinton]

We have everything?

The fact of the matter is we have all the evidence we ever likely to get, we are going round in circles.

I'm sorry that is not a fact - that is nonsense. Look at all the new evidence that has been uncovered in the last 30 years. From crime scene photographs to complete victim backgrounds. It seems that every day new items are being discovered and it is mainly thanks to this site and others like it.

Just because we haven't reached a conclusion doesn't mean we are travelling in circles - it might mean that the road is very long and we haven't reached the end yet.