Does anyone else feel

[jonwilson]

like Jack was an ordinary looking man and acted normal and that is why he was never caught? Ofcourse they didn't have dna and fingerprints and things like that, but it appears to me whoever Jack was., he was able to blend in with his surroundings very well and didn't bring any attention to himself. He was probably one of the nicest guys that the prostitutes would ever meet until the he showed his true intentions with them.

[kensei]

Of course he was ordinary looking, but that means ordinary for the East End- a rather shabby look. And he wouldn't have had to act "nice" to ingratiate himself to the prostitutes because they were well accustomed to servicing rough men that were far from nice. In fact, acting overly nice might have seemd suspicious. He only had to act as an ordinary East End bloke, and as long as he didn't set off any alarm bells as to possible violence the crudest kind of talk wouldn't have fazed those women at all.

A new tactic might have been tried if the Astrakan Man was the Ripper on the night of Mary Kelly's murder, that of dressing up in fancier clothes, but even then the description was "shabby genteel," or expensive clothes that were starting to get worn out.

[Ben]

Hi Kensei,

Do you have a reference for that "shabby genteel" observation? I've only heard it applied to suspects from the Chapman murder. For the record, I've very little doubt that the killer had the appearance of an average East Ender throughout the murder spree.

Best regards,
Ben

[kensei]

Ben,
I went on Philip Hutchinson's Ripper tour in Sept. '08 and it was he that described the Astrakan Man as being "Shabby Genteel" in appearance according to George Hutchinson's testimony. As Phil is an expert on the case, I trust his presentation.

[DVV]

Yes Ben,

I can even be more precise :
He had a strong Bethnalgreenish appearance...

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Ben,
I went on Philip Hutchinson's Ripper tour in Sept. '08 and it was he that described the Astrakan Man as being "Shabby Genteel" in appearance according to George Hutchinson's testimony. As Phil is an expert on the case, I trust his presentation.

Hi Kensei,

I know Philip is an expert... But Astrakhan Man "shabby-genteel"???

Amitiés,
David

[Ben]

Hi Kensei,

No witness testimony from the Kelly murder contained the expression "shabby genteel" with regard to any suspect, although the Blotchy man's coat was described by Mary Ann Cox as "very shabby".

Best regards,
Ben

[Ben]

He had a strong Bethnalgreenish appearance

Indeed, Dave!

"His pea jacket had the villainous fit that instantly betrayed his occupation and residence as a dock-labouring Victoria Homie respectively".

[kensei]

I have my experience of Phil's Ripper tour on video and I watch it periodically. He talks about George Hutchinson describing a man of "shabby genteel" appearance an then indicates this means someone wearing "expensive clothes, but they were getting worn out."

[Ben]

Yes, and since many East-enders wore hand-me-downs or clothes that had been to and from the pawnbrokers, it isn't surprising that many impoverished locals could be seen wearing items of clothing that could have been considered "decent" once upon a time. "Shabby genteel" was an observation made in connection with suspects seen at the Chapman murder, though. It didn't enter into the equation at the Kelly inquest.

[DVV]

Astrakhan Man was certainly an ex-shabby-genteel.
A parvenu.
He obviously lacks class.

Amitiés,
David