Mind boggling..and yet, a reason for it maybe?

[Phil Carter]

Hello Edward,

Thank you for the reply.
Not a conspiracy, just a lot of partly unanswered questions that need a better explanation.

best wishes

Phil

[Edward]

Hi Phil,

Better explanation is right. Looking forward to seeing who else weighs in with their ideas/opinions.

Ed

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

In Derek Osborne's excellent dissertation, on Casebook, A Curious find in Goulston St, he suggests the possibility of the evidence of the piece of apron possibly being planted there by Halse.

Hunter, above, rightly points out that Halse was the connection between Mitre Square and Goulston Street. And as I say, what was Dr.Phillips doing at Leman St in the early hours of that morning? And I believe i am correct in saying that it took him 2 hours or so to get to the mortuary with the cut off oiece of apron....

best wishes

Phil

[Suzi]

Hi Phil
So Halse did the dire deed- tucked the incrimating pinny under his jacket- scuttled into the dark- dumped it- possibly scribbled some toot and the rest is 'history'

Anything- even that is possible........ I do nurse a ''A Copper did it" theory darkly somewhere in what passes for my mind though.....

[Hunter]

In regards to Dr. Phillips tardiness. He had to be a busy man that night. The police had learned their lesson from the Nichols post-mortem and after the Chapman murder, when they figured they had a serial murderer, they chose to use more than one doctor for crime scene and autopsy analysis. Phillips' link with the Chapman murder made him desirable, even with the City case ( as stated by Dr. Brown) so he had two murder scenes to deal with on one night.

His reason for being at the Commercial St. station was probably for a preleminary report on the Stride murder. His eventual placement at the Leman St. station was because he had been summoned by Dr. Brown. After a night like that I bet ole' George tossed a few bumpers down his throat when he got home.

The discrepancy in the reports ? They didn't have tape recorders then and relying on memory alone can be fallable. One would think that they would rely on written earlier reports, but they seemed to go on memory instead when questioned. In Stride's case, Swanson, in his summary got PC Smith's description of the man he saw with Stride wrong, even though Smith had testified at the inquiry. A central system computer base certainly would have helped.

P. S.- Phil, when do you sleep?

[curious]

I do nurse a ''A Copper did it" theory darkly somewhere in what passes for my mind though.....

especially with Eddowes.

curious

[Edward]

The GSG: when was it written?

Hello Phil, all

This may be a little off theme for this thread, but questions and explanations are central issues. As a result of following this thread, I went back and read Derek F. Osborne's “A Curious Find in Goulston Street". I came away with more questions than I had previously.

From A Curious Find … “So how did the writing and rag come into existence one hour and ten minutes after the Mitre Square murderer had fled the scene of his crime?”

Did it really come into existence then? Or was it there all along unnoticed until 2:55?

Osborne: “As to the graffito, it was small, chalked in rounded letters similar to a schoolboy's hand, covering an area of two or three bricks only. And as such, its appearance was negligible.”

From a previous post by Phil, "PC Alfred Long 254A, drafted in from A Division, Westminster as part of the extra patrols during the Ripper scare, talking about this FIRST night on duty in the area, said at the inquest..."

"I was on duty in Goulston Street Whitechapel, about 2.55 AM. on 30th September 1888, I found a portion of a woman's apron...lying in a passage leading to the staircases of 108 to 119 Model Dwelling House. above it written in chalk was (the GS Graffito)...”

Long describes the piece of apron, and the GSG as having been written “in a passage…” Look at the entrance to the dwellings ...

http://photos.casebook.org/displayimage.php?pos=-137

Any writing that was truly inside the entrance could be easily overlooked, depending upon the direction in which a constable is walking. Do we know the direction that policemen travelled on their pass through Goulston Street? - and - Do we know which side of the entrance the writing was on? The writing itself could have been overlooked during previous rounds because the constable was facing away from the GSG as he previously passed the Wentworth Dwellings.

As for the writing itself, it has been described by police as, "The writing had the appearance of being recently written" (Halse). I believe Long stated that he "... could not say ... " if the writing was recent. "Recent" could have been the afternoon before the discovery. We'll never know each person's definition of "recent". Shame

My questions about the piece of apron next ...

Best Regards,
Edward

[Phil Carter]

Hello Edward,

This point is really quite important..in many ways. Your wrote..

Any writing that was truly inside the entrance could be easily overlooked, depending upon the direction in which a constable is walking. Do we know the direction that policemen travelled on their pass through Goulston Street? - and - Do we know which side of the entrance the writing was on? The writing itself could have been overlooked during previous rounds because the constable was facing away from the GSG as he previously passed the Wentworth Dwellings.

It is dark in the street, and even darker in the entrance where the GSG was found. Even coming from the "right" direction, one would have to shine a light INTO the entrance...and not just from the street. This isnt a high powered torchlight they are using remember.
There are MANY such entrances all along the street. Are we to presume that the police took the time to look into EVERY entrance down the street whilst on the beat? We are not told of this in any testimony.
So how come the police found that writing, in the dark, away from the pavement, on a black wall, covering three bricks, with a torn piece of cloth on the ground?
Was the street so spotlesly clean that rubbish, litter etc did not occur also?

Halse is the ONLY connection between Mitre Square and Goulston Street. He passed down there once, then came back to find that PC Long had discovered the writing and the rag.

In one dissertation, it has already been suggested that the piece of apron was planted there by a policeman. I suggest that it is also possible that both the writing and the apron could have been planted there...by the same policeman.
Food for thought?

best wishes

Phil