"Murder Mag" - a mate of the first victim and a police witness to the Kelly murder?

[Chris Scott]

Thanks Norma and Tom for a fascinating suggestion
To allow some follow up, do we know definitively what Margaret's surname was? I have seem Hames, Hayes, Haines and Haynes!
Regards
Chris

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Chris,

Natalie has done much more research on the Smith murder than I have, so I'm afraid I can't help out here. I would love to learn more about it though. Thanks for the endless amount of great finds.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Chris and Tom,
Some newspapers refer to Margaret"s surname as "Hames" but "The Times" gives her name as "Hayes".Another point in her favour is that she was 54 years old in 1888 ,so by 1895 she was aged 61 which sounds like it could have been her the reporter is talking about.
Newspapers reported her claim that she was attacked in the same location in Osborne St as Emma Smith claimed she was attacked but whether Emma Smith really was attacked where she said is uncertain as she lied about her marital status and her work when she arrived at the hospital .Also Police found it very strange that despite several PC"s being on duty throughout the night of her attack in the street she named, not one of them had heard any noise or seen any youths in that vicinity during the entire night.She was also very evasive when asked about the attack.
Some newspapers carrying the story are:

The Times 14 April 1888
Lloyd"s Weekly News -Sunday April 8 1888
Morning Advertiser Monday April 9th
East London Advertiser 7th April 18


Margaret Hayes had been so viciously attacked just before Christmas 1887 that she spent from 8th to 28 December 1887 in the Whitechapel infirmary.She and Emma lived in the same lodging house at 18 George street Spitalfields-Martha Tabram lived at !9 George Street- which was the scene of another "possible"ripper attack on 21st November 1888.


Best
Norma

[DVV]

Some newspapers refer to Margaret"s surname as "Hames" but "The Times" gives her name as "Hayes".

Norma

Then it must be Hames.

Amitiés Norma,
David

[Tom_Wescott]

Perhaps. The Times butchered names. It's the reason Diemschitz's name is always rendered as Diemschutz.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Tom,

Indeed. They certainly did!
The Times has, rightly or wrongly been chosen as the most accurate of the newspapers, yet as with others, mistakes were made from that department too. Cross referencing re newspapers, although troublesome, tiring and infuriating at times, is perhaps the only answer to find if not the truth, a happy medium?

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

My favourite is PC Phail.

Amitiés,
David

[Debra A]

There has been some suggestions somwhere that murder mag and pearly poll where one and the same person

I once suggested Pearly Poll as a possible for 'Murder Mag' over on JTRforums.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=46702

Post #13


I much prefer Norma's idea of it being Margaret Hames now though. An excellent suggestion Norma

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Debs,

Guess you should start posting your finds on both sites.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Debra A]

I do most times, Tom.
Originally this was on a thread about the 'Toilers of London' series of articles and illustrations from the US press and I only posted it on casebook, I just referenced it later on the forums... It got lost in the crash though.
I think I also mentioned somewhere that the 'murder mag' story had some vague ring of the Bella Freeman story about it...that thread was lost too so I have no idea what I actually said

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Debs,
I read the link and like the ideas.Who knows it may have been Pearly Poll,though Pearly Poll sounds as though she doesnt want any more connection to the case than is strictly necessary.She disappears for a bit when the police want her for id purposes!
Good to see you Debs,
Norma