possessions

[dixon9]

just browsing through some old notes and was amazed(again) by the possessions Catherine Eddowes had on her person when found.
Not of many great value obviously but having to carry round with you your tea,sugar and soap,you really realise how hard these poor people had things.

Would most of the lower working class have to carry most of their belongings around like this?
Many thanks for any help

Dixon9
still learning

[Dave James]

just browsing through some old notes and was amazed(again) by the possessions Catherine Eddowes had on her person when found.
Not of many great value obviously but having to carry round with you your tea,sugar and soap,you really realise how hard these poor people had things.

Would most of the lower working class have to carry most of their belongings around like this?
Many thanks for any help

Dixon9
still learning

Hi Dixon
I suspect that anyone who was dispossesed as a lot of these people were would carry there megre possesions with them. I mean, where would they leave them? In a doss house? There would be no guarantee that the stuff would still be there when you returned, if you returned.

I think you have to look on these items as 'portable wealth'.

All the best
Dave

[dixon9]

thanks dave,probably going soft in my old age,but it seems so sad.



dixon9
still learning

[Limehouse]

This point really hammers home the nature of homelessness even in modern times. It's not just a matter of having somewhere to sleep, it's also about having no privacy, no place to stamp your identity with your possessions, no where to express yourself.

I have never been homeless, but I was moved from temporary home to temporary home for brief periods as a child when my mother was very ill. Sometimes I was with foster carers, sometimes with neighbours, sometimes with relatives. I hated it, not so much because I was away from my family, but because I didn't feel I belonged in the places that were not home. I didn't feel safe, I didn't feel the comfort of familiarity and I could not sink into that feeling of 'privacy' when the outside world is out there and you are in your kingdom, able to be yourself.

I don't think I have expressed myself very well but what I am trying to say is that homelessness, long term or short term, is much more than not having a roof over your head. You are visible, exposed and vulnerable and yet you are also invisible because you are nobody.

[cappuccina]

Sadly, it is exactly the same in Detroit right now...

God bless you Limehouse, you have been through a great deal, and you are an amazing, courageous and very empathetic woman...

[Phil Carter]

Hello cappucina, Limehouse,

This all leads to my question about Mary Kelly's room and IT'S contents...

or complete lack of them compared with Eddowes, for example.

best wishes

Phil

[Mike Covell]

Morning all, how do we know that a full inventory wasn't taken of Mary Kelly's, but lost over the years, among with other material?

[Monty]

A reconstruction of Catherine Eddowes clothing on the night she was murdered.....a bit cleaner.

[smezenen]

[QUOTE=Limehouse;117193].... homelessness, long term or short term, is much more than not having a roof over your head. You are visible, exposed and vulnerable and yet you are also invisible because you are nobody.[/QUOTE]

How true this is. How many deaths have we seen in the news this month? Excluding the Haiti Quake that has killed hundreds of thousands, you have only seen news of the Soldiers killed in afganistan (becouse its sensational/controversial ), and the famous (those that are highly visible) . My point here is nobody has heard about the homeless people that where killed in a building fire in Southern California this last week. They went into an abandoned building to get out of the rain, one of them lite a fire to dry out and get warm and the building burned to the ground killing 10. It happened in the High Desert area, near where Charles Mansion was living before he was caught.

[Limehouse]

Hello all, how nice to see the variety of answers to the original post.

Caps - thanks for your kind comments. I am lucky to have had so many lovely people willing to help me over the years. Sadly, these women, and thousands like them, did not receive such kindness.

Monty - wonderful pics! How attractive the clothing looks in such a fresh and new state.

Phil - it is sad that Mary appeared to have so few possessions but it is likely she pawned anything decent on a regular basis to buy food and drink. In some ways, being luckier than the others and having a room to retreat to, caused her to be the most abused victim of the killer. Having a room to hide in, to enjoy relative privacy in, also meant her killer had time and space to indulge his most depraved cravings. I wonder if he would have done the same to the other women if they also had rooms?

Smezenen - what a tragic story. How right you are. Thank you for drawing that to my attention. God bless them.

[looby64]

(Quote. Phil - it is sad that Mary appeared to have so few possessions but it is likely she pawned anything decent on a regular basis to buy food and drink. In some ways, being luckier than the others and having a room to retreat to, caused her to be the most abused victim of the killer. Having a room to hide in, to enjoy relative privacy in, also meant her killer had time and space to indulge his most depraved cravings. I wonder if he would have done the same to the other women if they also had rooms?)

Yes that definetly made me think! What more he would of done to the other given more time and privacy, one can only imagine.
x Looby

[Chadwick]

This point really hammers home the nature of homelessness even in modern times. It's not just a matter of having somewhere to sleep, it's also about having no privacy, no place to stamp your identity with your possessions, no where to express yourself.

I have never been homeless, but I was moved from temporary home to temporary home for brief periods as a child when my mother was very ill. Sometimes I was with foster carers, sometimes with neighbours, sometimes with relatives. I hated it, not so much because I was away from my family, but because I didn't feel I belonged in the places that were not home. I didn't feel safe, I didn't feel the comfort of familiarity and I could not sink into that feeling of 'privacy' when the outside world is out there and you are in your kingdom, able to be yourself.

I don't think I have expressed myself very well but what I am trying to say is that homelessness, long term or short term, is much more than not having a roof over your head. You are visible, exposed and vulnerable and yet you are also invisible because you are nobody.

What a difficult experience to go through, Limehouse, not to mention your concern for your mum. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. However, experiences such as that do make us more appreciative of the small things, not taking the good that happens to us for granted. Being a little guy, though, it has a greater impact to make one feel helpless and defenseless.

This issue of dire poverty and homelessness has been one of my points about Liz Stride and the candies in her hand. I have had the feeling that she had few possessions and holding onto those candies was like holding onto the hope for life. It was the hand without blood on it. The other she must have used to touch her sliced open neck.

Such beautiful pictures of Catherine Eddowes' clothing. Thank you for sharing those.

Best,
~Chadwick

[smezenen]

OK i was bored, so here is a bit of photo trickery....Monty, I hope you dont mind, I used your beautifull photo of Catherine's cloths.. this is what my tired eyes almost saw when I first looked at the pictures.

[The Good Michael]

because I didn't feel I belonged in the places that were not home. I didn't feel safe, I didn't feel the comfort of familiarity and I could not sink into that feeling of 'privacy'

Limehouse,

If it's not too personal, how did you shake that feeling? I have had some similar experiences and to this day I feel never exactly at home, but neither do I feel that I am ever uncomfortable with where I live. I don't know what it's like to be totally at ease in a place, however, or that it's a place that even exists within me.

Cheers,

Mike

[Limehouse]

Limehouse,

If it's not too personal, how did you shake that feeling? I have had some similar experiences and to this day I feel never exactly at home, but neither do I feel that I am ever uncomfortable with where I live. I don't know what it's like to be totally at ease in a place, however, or that it's a place that even exists within me.

Cheers,

Mike

Hi Mike,

It took a long time for me to find security. I left London 21 years ago, when I was 31, and I have settled down now but I absolutely hate my home being invaded! I don't like strangers knocking on the door or even telephoning me and I don't like people calling in unannounced. Of course, I always make people welcome, but, like you, I feel uncomfortable.

Another thing is that I never, ever stay over at other people's homes, not even close family like my sister. We stay in hotels - because that way I can create my own private space - without it being someone elses.

A few years ago, perhaps, ten, I came to terms with the fact I will never feel comfortable with myself. My early experiences (they went on to become a bit more complicated later in my childhood) changed me forever. However, I know there are aspects of those experiences that have had positive effects as well as negative. Therefore, I have learned to accept who I am. I have stopped searching for 'me' and learned to 'become' the person that was left after those experiences changed me.

I suppose this happens to a lot of people who have to adjust to changes in their lives that they did not expect.