Before Jack started his killing spree

[jonwilson]

Were there any other mutilation type murders in London before Jack started killing women?

[DVV]

Hi Jon,

some disastrous amputations in London Hospital, perhaps.
Does it count ?

Amitiés,
David

[j.r-ahde]

Hello jon!

Well, if we think, that the murders from Annie Millwood til Martha Tabram weren't connected to Jack the Ripper and are separate cases, sure!

Probably there had been some before them, though!

All the best
Jukka

[Pontius2000]

before, during, and after the JTR killings, you have Emma Smith, Martha Tabram, Alice Mackenzie, Francis Coles, and I believe 4 different "torso victims". I think it's entirely possible that we have a second serial killer operating at the time of JTR. I personally think Tabram was probably a JTR victim. but the torso cases all seem to have the same MO.

If those torso victims were all done by the same hand, I wonder if the killer was miffed that Jack got all the attention.

[DVV]

before, during, and after the JTR killings, you have Emma Smith, Martha Tabram, Alice Mackenzie, Francis Coles.

None of them has been mutilated, Pontius.

Amitiés,
David

[j.r-ahde]

Hello David!

Well, I find it possible, that the Torso murders were done by the same hand.

But I also find it possible, that The Torso killer might have felt relieved, that JtR got all the public attention.

All the best
Jukka

[Pontius2000]

None of them has been mutilated, Pontius.

Amitiés,
David

what are you talking about? every single one of them were mutilated. perhaps you meant "not mutilated in the same manner that the canoncal 5 were mutilated." but yes, they were all mutilated.

[DVV]

Well, what I mean now is that you're confusing injuries and mutilations. The thread is about mutilations as in the canonical cases, isn't it ?

Amitiés,
David

edit: an example: Coles had her throat cut... is that mutilation to you ?

[KatBradshaw]

I am interested to know what your motivation for asking this question was. Are you trying to find out about the sorts of murders being commited in the East End say?

[DVV]

Well, I find it possible, that the Torso murders were done by the same hand.

But I also find it possible, that The Torso killer might have felt relieved, that JtR got all the public attention.

Jukka

Hi Jukka,

I confess I know next to nothing about the torsos...except that the case is more than obscure....
Btw, let me say it's always a pleasure to read your posts... You're never arrogant and I truly appreciate that.

Amitiés,
David

[Pontius2000]

Well, what I mean now is that you're confusing injuries and mutilations. The thread is about mutilations as in the canonical cases, isn't it ?

Amitiés,
David

edit: an example: Coles had her throat cut... is that mutilation to you ?

the question, as I understood it, was what "mutilation type" murders happened at the time.

I saw after re-reading your first post that you left out the torso killings when quoting me. those, without any question, would be considered "mutilations".

MacKenzie was mutilated. not to the extent of the C5, but still mutilated.

Tabram, I would consider mutilated. if you have a single stab wound, I would perhaps not go so far as to say "mutilated". but a cut throat plus 39 stab wounds, imo, is mutilation.

Smith was not "mutilated" in the classic since of "mutilation". but she was molested in such a way that many would consider it mutilation.

one definition said something to the extent of, "altering the body in such a way as to make it non-functional". in that definition, Smith could be considered mutilation.

I don't know if the original poster was talking about crimes "like" the Ripper's or other "mutilation type" crimes that were out of the norm. if that's the case, I'd say all of them except Frances Coles would be considered "out of the norm".

[DVV]

Pontius,

"mutilation" shouldn't apply even to Mc Kenzie. She had scratches on her abdomen, and her throat cut. That is not "mutilation".

Amitiés,
David

[Pontius2000]

Pontius,

"mutilation" shouldn't apply even to Mc Kenzie. She had scratches on her abdomen, and her throat cut. That is not "mutilation".

Amitiés,
David

she had a 7 inch wound on the abdomen that was described separately from the 8 scratches. was the wound comparable to the wounds of the C5? no. but it was obviously more severe than a scratch or it would have been described as a 9th scratch rather than a wound separate from the other scratches.

[DVV]

Well, Pontius, no need to quarrel about that... You very well know what "mutilation" means, and it only applies to 3 or 4 of JtR victims.

[Pontius2000]

Well, Pontius, no need to quarrel about that... You very well know what "mutilation" means, and it only applies to 3 or 4 of JtR victims.

"mutilation" applies to ALL of the C5 victims.

and MacKenzie.

and the torso victims.


Emma Smith and Frances Coles are debateable.