JTR a "local" man? Arguments for and against

[Ben]

Hi Caz,

Short of his base happening to be in an ideal location for sitting outside the front door with his fishing rod out and hooking one of the poor dabs making it their business to walk past at obligingly regular intervals, he was obliged to travel to, or wade around

There are a few serial killers who target specific regions that they believe to be rich in ideal victims, but they tend to be outnumbered by those who take advantage of the easiest targets within their own residential orbit. Experience and commonsense suggests that JTR belonged in the latter category. One thing we have learned - or should have learned - about the comparatively rare commuter serialists is that they try out different locations, usually tryng another one when the pressure hots up in their initially targetted region. They don't pick out a very small localized area, for example, and keep "commuting" there despite the increasing police presence after each murder, and despite the availability of plentiful and arguably better "target-rich" areas elsewhere.

When we do encounter a series of similar and unsolved crimes that are within as easy walking distance of eachother as they were in the Whitechapel series, it usually points towards the offender being resident in that area. Just to be clear, there is nothing remotely coincidental or unusual about a killer "happening" to find himself living in a target-rich area. Prostitution was everywhere in the LVP East End, which was home to an estimated 900,000 people, so there's no unusual or noteworthy "happenstance" about Jack the Ripper being one of those 900,000.

Embracing your fishpond analagy, then, wherein the fisherman is Jack and the ponds refer to target-rich localities, our "commuter" Jack is like a fisherman who continually visits a specifc small pond - the one that's always under the most scrutiny from an increasing supply of angling bailiffs - rather than trying different ponds that are equally fish-rich and where hardly any angling bailiffs visit.

That's a silly fisherman - and a rare one.

Best regards,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

All the circle represents in the ripper case is where the dabs he caught congregated

Buck's Row? Hanbury Street? And on both occasions - on three occasions, if one includes Kelly - between the hours of 03:00 and 05:00 in the morning? These parameters aren't redolent of a "dabbler" picking the right areas, or times, in which to cast his net.

[robhouse]

"Its not funny. And what even unfunnier is that people actually swallow this crap."

Hey Mr. Poster,

I assume that the entirety of your knowledge about geographic profiling comes from the earlier post in which there is a picture of a couple circles, and from which you draw some knee-jerk idiotic conclusions as to the entirety of research in that area.

Congratulations on a truly dumb post.

Rob H

[Sam Flynn]

Buck's Row? Hanbury Street? And on both occasions - on three occasions, if one includes Kelly - between the hours of 03:00 and 05:00 in the morning? These parameters aren't redolent of a "dabbler" picking the right areas, or times, in which to cast his net.

Sorry - that sounded impersonal. I now suffix it with "Hi Caz"

[Vigilantee]

I'm surprised this thread proved so contentious, for me the contrary of this question is more telling. Was JTR not local. To which the answer is if he wasnt what the hell was he doing there at that time in the morning. He most certainly wouldn't have been some ponsy toff from the West End at that time or anyone who appeared even remotely affluent. Such people stood out like a sore thumb in Whitechapel even in the evening and ran a huge risk of being robbed or murdered. So someone of that class in the backstreets of some of the most poorest areas would be running an enormous risk, especially at the height of the Ripper scare.

On the other hand if he were non-local and poor how would he get there and back? Transport was not free and few people from unpriviledged backgrounds traveled from one area of London to another at that time of night in that period.

The only other option for a non-local would be some petit bourgeois merchant class type or travelling sales man, but even these are unlikely to be active in this area between 1am and 5am as Jack appears to have been.

The only solution that makes sense, especially given the apparent local geographic knowledge of the killer was that he was a local.

As for the Jewish aspect, the vast majority of the population of Whitechapel were Jewish at this time, with a few Irish and other ethnic groups living alongside them and the older population of dispossesed English. Statistically a local Jack is most likely going to be Jewish Jack. And I think this was at the forefront of the Police's minds. As for the idea that the Jewish population was more affluent than any other group, this is very far from the truth, there were wealthier Jewish immigrants and there were impoverished Jewish immigrants, luck doesn't favour religion or ethnicity. It is also hardly anti-semitic to hold it 'obvious' that Jack was a poor Jew given the area. I would also suggest that the kind of mental damage Jack experienced, whether organic or psychological was also more prevalant in a deprived background than an affluent one. Jack like all dangerous criminals was a product of his society and an inevitable one at that, in many ways the exact person behind the murders is almost irrelevant, such a socially engendered 'psychosis' could have manifest through a great number of potential instruments.

[The Good Michael]

As for the Jewish aspect, the vast majority of the population of Whitechapel were Jewish at this time,

From memory, there were about 80,000 people in Whitechapel. There were also about 50,000 Jews in the entire East End. My guess is that Jews were a minority and maybe not much larger in population than the Irish. My memory could be a bit off on this, but not too much.

Mike

[Jon Guy]

Hi Vigilantee, he may have targetted that time and area knowing full well that after 03.00 am there would be potential victims.


He may have been from another poor area of London such as Lambeth.
Walking great distances was not a problem for poor Victorians, as per Hutchinson walking back from Romford after midnight, or Kate Eddowes walking to the hops in Kent.

The only other option for a non-local would be some petit bourgeois merchant class type or travelling sales man, but even these are unlikely to be active in this area between 1am and 5am as Jack appears to have been.

How about someone who comes into Whitechapel early to sell at the Markets

[Ben]

Hi Vigilantee,

I agree; the killer was local, or locally based at the very least. However, it was the gentile population that comprised the majority in the East End of 1888, not the Jews.

Hi Jon,

Personally, I can't see our killer walking to the district from somewhere like Lambeth to commit murder, especially not on a continual basis. The number of prostitutes available in the Lambeth district would have ennervated any need to "commute" elsewhere which, in this case, would have necessitated a very prolonged escape home exposed on the streets with incriminating viscera.

Best regards,
Ben

[Jon Guy]

Personally, I can't see our killer walking to the district from somewhere like Lambeth to commit murder, especially not on a continual basis. The number of prostitutes available in the Lambeth district would have ennervated any need to "commute" elsewhere which, in this case, would have necessitated a very prolonged escape home exposed on the streets with incriminating viscera.

Hello Ben

You are quite right,as is Vigilantee. Local man.

I was merely responding to Vigilantee`s point that "if he was non local and poor how would he get there and back?".
My point being,poor Victorians walked, long distances.

But,as you mention it once he is out of Whitechapel he should be reasonably safe if carrying trophy`s ?

[Sam Flynn]

How about someone who comes into Whitechapel early to sell at the Markets

Between 1 and 3 o'clock, though? That's one dedicated tradesman, Jon!

[Sam Flynn]

But,as you mention it - once he is out of Whitechapel he should be reasonably safe if carrying trophy`s ?

Not unless carrying lukewarm human viscera was a normal practice in other parts of town, Jon

[Vigilantee]

Perhaps most of the Jews lived in Whitechapel? I don't have the statistics I was just going on what friends who lived in Whitechapel say. Their families were there for generations, though of course may not extend back to Victorian times. They almost unanimously describe Whitechapel as the Jewish district and most with any interest in the subject think Jack was local. No proof in that I know but its interesting I think.

From memory, there were about 80,000 people in Whitechapel. There were also about 50,000 Jews in the entire East End. My guess is that Jews were a minority and maybe not much larger in population than the Irish. My memory could be a bit off on this, but not too much.

Mike

[Vigilantee]

Thats true I know a lot of old Londoners (and a few young) that walk long distances. Walking to Romford is a daunting thought though, but I guess if its your only option....

Hi Vigilantee, he may have targetted that time and area knowing full well that after 03.00 am there would be potential victims.


He may have been from another poor area of London such as Lambeth.
Walking great distances was not a problem for poor Victorians, as per Hutchinson walking back from Romford after midnight, or Kate Eddowes walking to the hops in Kent.

The only other option for a non-local would be some petit bourgeois merchant class type or travelling sales man, but even these are unlikely to be active in this area between 1am and 5am as Jack appears to have been.

How about someone who comes into Whitechapel early to sell at the Markets

[Vigilantee]

To put that in context, while I've never tried it I cant imagine getting from Whitchapel to Romford in less than four hours on foot, or to even the edge of Kent in under six hours. And thats without stopping and walking at a brisk pace. So these people were certainly walkers.

[Jon Guy]

Between 1 and 3 o'clock, though? That's one dedicated tradesman, Jon!

Hi Sam

We know that the Ten Bells opened at 05.00 am to cater for the market people. John Richardson was up and about early and was already working at the market before 05.00am.I know this is not 01.00 am to 03.00 am,but
there were also the traders who came into town to sell at the market.

Also, there was Butchers Row Aldgate, where the cattle were herded (is that a word ?) overnight to be slaughtered and fresh for the market the next day.