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Hello everyone,
I am a first-timer on here so please go easy on me if I am asking questions which have been already answered on countless occasions!!
My fascination with the Ripper crimes goes back to when I was a boy in Liverpool and my grandfather told me that his relation was questioned by the police in east London regarding the JTR crimes because of the job they did – apparently he was a butcher or slaughterhouse worker. They were immigrant Jews from Germany who had left for an easier life. My Grandfathers family had arrived in London some years before the crimes however they soon separated and went to different parts of the country to stand a better chance of finding work. Anyway that is not the point of me writing, just wanted to give you a background.
I sometimes read these pages and feel that people spend their time looking at the smaller details far too much, for example I saw a thread regarding the layout of Mary Kelly’s bed and side table. I do believe that the finer details, although interesting as they may be, do tend to blur what should be an overall aim, namely finding someone we could agree on as very probably being JTR. The victims are important, but is it likely we could come up with a suspect based on studying photos alone? In a random killer case, especially one as old as this with no hard evidence intact, is it likely we could nail someone down based on this alone? My belief is that it is futile to look at the individual victims in too much detail; we need to look at the overall picture in order to identify possible avenues which might yield further information to follow up on. I personally believe that it is highly unlikely that anyone has actually fingered the individual responsible for these crimes, despite the numerous suspects put forward. I don’t know how many people lived in the Whitechapel area, yet alone travelled in on a daily basis, but it seems to me that it would be the proverbial needle in a haystack to expect anyone to have actually named them already. Many of the suspects appear to me to have had the cases for them being JTR fitted around them in order to make a story, rather than them being deemed as likely to have been JTR based on any real, hard evidence.( I’m afraid being male, living in London and alive in 1888 alone just doesn’t cut it for me as being a starting point…although if there’s a few quid to made I am sure I could come up with someone plausible. )
I have visited this website for a good 2-3 years now off and on however it is only now I decided to register and post. Some of the posters on here have amazing background knowledge and it is those I am really hoping to answer my questions (albeit with a worry that people may think what I have to say somewhat pathetic or ill-informed). There are a number of things which have been puzzling me and because I didn’t have the time to trawl through all the threads then maybe someone can answer them for me, so here goes.
1.Is it generally considered more than likely that the person responsible for the killings worked ?As the crimes all took place on or around the weekend, I have been wondering whether there were certain jobs which gave an individual those days off in the 1880s or did people work 7 days a week? if not, then which trades might likely have offered a person a job which qualified for time off? As the docks were nearby, were there certain routes which operated on a Sunday to Thursday cycle? if so, are there records which could be checked or crew lists available? could a pattern be found from that or individuals worth checking out? By the way, that’s not with any pre-formed opinion in mind, more from a possible source of suspect.
2.If the killer was deranged, unemployed and local with an appetite for destruction, then is it likely that they would only kill on certain days over a period of time or would an insane person from out of the local area do the same? would this individual not kill whenever they chose to do so, regardless of the day? let’s face it they would have plenty of potential victims on any given day. Or, Is it possible that they were a well-to-do individual whose opportunity came from the fact they were left alone on certain days of the week or at random intervals e.g. their wife and children went away to another place or their business brought them to London on occasion?
3.Another thing which amazes me is the break between the events and I know these have been looked at before. Are they related to their profession? Did they constantly prowl the streets or did they operate on an as and when basis? I know that modern serial killers don’t kill every night but if your prey were there every night, then is it likely they could resist?
4.Did the police work shifts in those days like today and if so what were they?would a policeman have known what shift they were working in advance and if so how far in advance? Another question bothering me is did they walk the beat in pairs and if so were they always paired up? What happened if their regular partner was sick? could they have had the opportunity to do the beat alone, possibly explaining the random nature of the killings? And wouldn’t a policeman’s uniform be a perfect disguise for not only attracting the victim but also escaping the scene, especially if they knew they were off duty at a set time or could head to a local home? I don’t know from what material the standard issue uniform for a bobby was made, however is it likely that it would have shown blood that was stained on it, even significant levels of it, especially at night ? Would a lone policeman walking the beat in Whitechapel have come across prostitutes on a nightly basis? if so, then is it not possible that they could have stood in the shadows while they did their business then acted once they were done? May this be the reason why the witness statements vary so much, in that they were identifying the last client seen rather than the murderer himself?
5.Is it the common opinion that the JTR killings stopped with Mary Kelly? If you look at the pattern of the days the canonical victims died, then are there other likely victims based on just the days they died alone and could others be ruled out on that basis alone? Is it likely that someone could just stop killing or would they only stop if they were unable to carry on due to some other reason? As the police were under immense pressure from both the media and locals ( fuelled by political pressure from local groups, as well as the fact that the City police were also considered to be rivals) then is it not possible that they did catch “Jack”, however as he was found to be from within the police itself then it was deemed easier to act as though he had just stopped and accept the flack that came with it for not seeming to catch him rather than expose the truth and therefore further destabilise the east end and the future of the police force within it ?any individual who caught Jack may have had to miss out on personal glory which came from his actions but could he have not benefited in other ways, i.e. financially or through a meteoric rise in position in order to accept that his silence was necessary? I cannot for the life of me imagine that a lower order bobby would have turned that down for their silence, its not as if they had a Hello magazine in those days willing to offer thousands for the “how I caught Jack” scoop.
6.What was this relationship like between the east end police and the city police? is it possible that JTR was created by the City Police in order to embarrass the east end police or was the rivalry more friendly and banter based? Referring back to some of my points in 5, then is it possible that if the boundaries between the two police were so close, yet the relationship so strained that it may have been possible for a “jack the copper” from the city force to have been able to flee the area because his actions might have been authorised from within the city police itself? he would have only needed to cover a relatively short distance after all? Were the City uniforms completely different so to stand out from an east end bobby at a quick glance?
Again, go easy on me, I think my imagination has gone ahead of me in some of these questions but it is purely to see if these ideas have already been approached and dealt with.
Regards to you all
I am a first-timer on here so please go easy on me if I am asking questions which have been already answered on countless occasions!!
My fascination with the Ripper crimes goes back to when I was a boy in Liverpool and my grandfather told me that his relation was questioned by the police in east London regarding the JTR crimes because of the job they did – apparently he was a butcher or slaughterhouse worker. They were immigrant Jews from Germany who had left for an easier life. My Grandfathers family had arrived in London some years before the crimes however they soon separated and went to different parts of the country to stand a better chance of finding work. Anyway that is not the point of me writing, just wanted to give you a background.
I sometimes read these pages and feel that people spend their time looking at the smaller details far too much, for example I saw a thread regarding the layout of Mary Kelly’s bed and side table. I do believe that the finer details, although interesting as they may be, do tend to blur what should be an overall aim, namely finding someone we could agree on as very probably being JTR. The victims are important, but is it likely we could come up with a suspect based on studying photos alone? In a random killer case, especially one as old as this with no hard evidence intact, is it likely we could nail someone down based on this alone? My belief is that it is futile to look at the individual victims in too much detail; we need to look at the overall picture in order to identify possible avenues which might yield further information to follow up on. I personally believe that it is highly unlikely that anyone has actually fingered the individual responsible for these crimes, despite the numerous suspects put forward. I don’t know how many people lived in the Whitechapel area, yet alone travelled in on a daily basis, but it seems to me that it would be the proverbial needle in a haystack to expect anyone to have actually named them already. Many of the suspects appear to me to have had the cases for them being JTR fitted around them in order to make a story, rather than them being deemed as likely to have been JTR based on any real, hard evidence.( I’m afraid being male, living in London and alive in 1888 alone just doesn’t cut it for me as being a starting point…although if there’s a few quid to made I am sure I could come up with someone plausible. )
I have visited this website for a good 2-3 years now off and on however it is only now I decided to register and post. Some of the posters on here have amazing background knowledge and it is those I am really hoping to answer my questions (albeit with a worry that people may think what I have to say somewhat pathetic or ill-informed). There are a number of things which have been puzzling me and because I didn’t have the time to trawl through all the threads then maybe someone can answer them for me, so here goes.
1.Is it generally considered more than likely that the person responsible for the killings worked ?As the crimes all took place on or around the weekend, I have been wondering whether there were certain jobs which gave an individual those days off in the 1880s or did people work 7 days a week? if not, then which trades might likely have offered a person a job which qualified for time off? As the docks were nearby, were there certain routes which operated on a Sunday to Thursday cycle? if so, are there records which could be checked or crew lists available? could a pattern be found from that or individuals worth checking out? By the way, that’s not with any pre-formed opinion in mind, more from a possible source of suspect.
2.If the killer was deranged, unemployed and local with an appetite for destruction, then is it likely that they would only kill on certain days over a period of time or would an insane person from out of the local area do the same? would this individual not kill whenever they chose to do so, regardless of the day? let’s face it they would have plenty of potential victims on any given day. Or, Is it possible that they were a well-to-do individual whose opportunity came from the fact they were left alone on certain days of the week or at random intervals e.g. their wife and children went away to another place or their business brought them to London on occasion?
3.Another thing which amazes me is the break between the events and I know these have been looked at before. Are they related to their profession? Did they constantly prowl the streets or did they operate on an as and when basis? I know that modern serial killers don’t kill every night but if your prey were there every night, then is it likely they could resist?
4.Did the police work shifts in those days like today and if so what were they?would a policeman have known what shift they were working in advance and if so how far in advance? Another question bothering me is did they walk the beat in pairs and if so were they always paired up? What happened if their regular partner was sick? could they have had the opportunity to do the beat alone, possibly explaining the random nature of the killings? And wouldn’t a policeman’s uniform be a perfect disguise for not only attracting the victim but also escaping the scene, especially if they knew they were off duty at a set time or could head to a local home? I don’t know from what material the standard issue uniform for a bobby was made, however is it likely that it would have shown blood that was stained on it, even significant levels of it, especially at night ? Would a lone policeman walking the beat in Whitechapel have come across prostitutes on a nightly basis? if so, then is it not possible that they could have stood in the shadows while they did their business then acted once they were done? May this be the reason why the witness statements vary so much, in that they were identifying the last client seen rather than the murderer himself?
5.Is it the common opinion that the JTR killings stopped with Mary Kelly? If you look at the pattern of the days the canonical victims died, then are there other likely victims based on just the days they died alone and could others be ruled out on that basis alone? Is it likely that someone could just stop killing or would they only stop if they were unable to carry on due to some other reason? As the police were under immense pressure from both the media and locals ( fuelled by political pressure from local groups, as well as the fact that the City police were also considered to be rivals) then is it not possible that they did catch “Jack”, however as he was found to be from within the police itself then it was deemed easier to act as though he had just stopped and accept the flack that came with it for not seeming to catch him rather than expose the truth and therefore further destabilise the east end and the future of the police force within it ?any individual who caught Jack may have had to miss out on personal glory which came from his actions but could he have not benefited in other ways, i.e. financially or through a meteoric rise in position in order to accept that his silence was necessary? I cannot for the life of me imagine that a lower order bobby would have turned that down for their silence, its not as if they had a Hello magazine in those days willing to offer thousands for the “how I caught Jack” scoop.
6.What was this relationship like between the east end police and the city police? is it possible that JTR was created by the City Police in order to embarrass the east end police or was the rivalry more friendly and banter based? Referring back to some of my points in 5, then is it possible that if the boundaries between the two police were so close, yet the relationship so strained that it may have been possible for a “jack the copper” from the city force to have been able to flee the area because his actions might have been authorised from within the city police itself? he would have only needed to cover a relatively short distance after all? Were the City uniforms completely different so to stand out from an east end bobby at a quick glance?
Again, go easy on me, I think my imagination has gone ahead of me in some of these questions but it is purely to see if these ideas have already been approached and dealt with.
Regards to you all
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