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  • #1

    Maybe more

    My friend Mike and I were talking about a theory we are working on that is based on the theory that I stated in my thread 'The mind of "Jack the Ripper"' post#26, post#31, and post#44. It deals with the victimology of 6 victims and finding maybe more than those six.
    Today Mike sent me this private message:

    "Well, I will not be back to work until Monday, but I did find the Texas incident. In the San Saba County News, dated, Aug 7, 1891, it states:

    Two murders similar in character to those of "Jack the Ripper" have occurred in Marsaeilles. A man giving an Italian name twice took rooms, accompanied by a woman and in each case the woman was murdered, having been strangled then mutilated.

    It's interesting that these were in rooms similar to the last of the C5 murders. So far, I can't find any additional info.

    Mike"

    Is anybody familiar with that murder case and know maybe where I may find the medical reports,police reports, and photos of any kind related(if there are any) and even suspects.

    yours truly
    Washington Irving:

    "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

    Stratford-on-Avon
    Tags: None
  • #2
    News

    I found the news paper the article was printed in.

    The San Saba news. [volume] (San Saba, Tex.) 1873-1966, August 07, 1891, Image 1
    http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn84022097/1891-08-07/ed-1/seq-1/
    The San Saba news. [volume] (San Saba, Tex.) 1873-1966, August 07, 1891, Image 1, brought to you by University of North Texas; Denton, TX, and the National Digital Newspaper Program.


    I havent found the article but Im pretty sure it was printed in this copy.

    yours truly
    Washington Irving:

    "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

    Stratford-on-Avon

    Comment

    • #3
      This same news snippet can be found in several other newspapers of the time and I wrote about it in The New York Affair part 3 (Ripper Notes #19, July, 2004).

      First of all, these murders occurred in France not Texas. Notice the name of the city? Marseilles is a French port.

      Second of all, the date is important: Summer, 1891 (the newspaper I used was dated 23 July). Why? Because this seems to be an attempt to link the murder of Carrie Brown with these supposed murders in France.

      The number one suspect in the Brown murder was nicknamed “Frenchy,” or “Frenchy No. 2.” The man who killed Brown was described as looking like a sailor – Marseilles is a French sea port.
      The newspaper states that the man gave an Italian name – an Italian sounding name, “Kniclo,” or “Nicolo” was supposedly used by the killer of Brown.
      The newspaper states that the murders took place in hotel rooms – The murderer of Brown took place in the East River Hotel.
      The newspaper states that the victims were strangled then mutilated – Brown was strangled then mutilated.
      These incidents supposedly occurred in July, 1891 – Ameer Ben Ali was found guilty of the murder of Brown in July, 1891, a news story that was reported around the world.

      In the end there is no other information about these supposed murders in Marseilles and they may not have ever happened. There was a great deal of unease with the outcome of the Ben Ali trial and this may be an early attempt at sowing seeds of doubt about Ben Ali’s guilt. Certainly other murders were used for this purpose.

      Wolf.

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Wolf Vanderlinden View Post
        First of all, these murders occurred in France not Texas. Notice the name of the city? Marseilles is a French port.
        .
        Thank you for that insight wolf. But sadly Im not as dumb as you may think, see, it may have taken me a while but in that time I DID find out that when reading the words " Two murders similar in character of those of Jack the ripper occured in Marseilles" I sorta put two and two together and figured it out.

        Now on a brighter side thank you for any Helpful information(in which the above doesnt fall in)that you have presented.

        thank you
        ps Again you are assuming things. This has no connection what soever to the Brown murder.
        Last edited by corey123; 12-12-2009, 01:15 AM.
        Washington Irving:

        "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

        Stratford-on-Avon

        Comment

        • #5
          Again you are assuming things. This has no connection what soever to the Brown murder.
          I thought I explained the connection using context and chronology. Perhaps you can explain what you think you mean. Please provide evidence.

          Wolf.

          Comment

          • #6
            Evidence

            Sorry I didnt understand at the time what you were saying, my apologies wolf, thank you for that. There I go assuming lol, I thought you were saying that we were trying to connect the cases but we arent,.
            Is there any way I can veiw this issue #19?
            From what Iv seen your pretty much the expert on Carrie Brown, can I ask, what is your opinion about her, Ripper victim or not?
            yours truly
            Last edited by corey123; 12-12-2009, 02:31 AM.
            Washington Irving:

            "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

            Stratford-on-Avon

            Comment

            • #7
              For what it's worth, I agree with Wolf.

              There is no evidence that we have left to us that Tumblety was ever suspected of any other murders, or connected to any other such crimes.

              This is one of the most compelling arguments against him as the Ripper. That he was really a sensation-seeking con man always fleeing from some sticky situation he has got himself into.

              For all we know, Tumblety himself leaked the story, to the US tabloids, of being the chief suspect after, perhaps, Scotland Yard simply as a matter of routine questioned him about the Whitechapel murders -- and thus the story was a complete exaggeration and deflection.

              The Quack had actually been arrested for perversion and so to cover this he made up being arrested AND CHARGED as the Ripper as he knew that this would be more acceptable [being so absurd] than simply fleeing from a morals charge which could end his tenuous access to high society.

              This maybe the reason he looms so large in American tabloids and is mostly ignored [and never named] in the British press. Their reporters were briefed by Scotland Yard that the man was a con man and not a Ripper suspect AND a fair warning that if they reprinted this ludicrous story Tumblety -- assuming he came back and faced the charges, whether he was acquitted or not, could then sue every single British newspaper for libelously claiming he was a Ripper suspect.

              Mindful of the strict British libel laws, and assured that he was a confidence man -- with deep pockets -- and only tangentially associated with the Whitechapel case, the British press backed off.

              Just a thought?

              Comment

              • #8
                Jon

                We arent trying to connect Tumblety with any murders, Mike and I are making a victim count, not pointing to any suspects at all. Thanks for your input.

                yours truly
                Washington Irving:

                "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                Stratford-on-Avon

                Comment

                • #9
                  Hi Corey.

                  No problem. If you send me a private message with your e-mail address I will send you a copy of the article.

                  As for Brown as a Ripper murder victim, the description of the wounds to her body are not as severe as those to London's Ripper victims. There were two severe wounds but the majority were described as only slight, with some described as being "mere scratches." The killer of Brown did not open her abdominal cavity, as the Ripper did with his victims, and her throat was not cut. It seems highly unlikely that she was murdered by the Whitechapel Murderer.

                  Wolf.

                  Comment

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