Financial considerations

[Septic Blue]

… Donald seems a good chap to quote.

I'm sure Donald Rumbelow is many things: A somewhat sensationalist* tour-guide, being one of them. But, a demographer of Victorian London, he is not!

* He also claims that the Parish Church of St. Botolph without Aldgate was known, in 1888, as the "Prostitutes' Church". That too, is 'Ripperlore'!

Are you saying that 3-4d was not the usual fee?

I am saying firstly and fore mostly that we do not know what these women charged for their 'services'.

I am also saying that with a very wide range of 'services' on offer, there would invariably have been an accordant range of 'going rates'.

[The Grave Maurice]

I'm not sure what you guys are arguing about. I've been on the Rumbelow tour, and I don't recall his saying that the price was capped by anything. Surely the London quote that Rumbelow has adopted ("...or a loaf of stale bread") indicates that the unfortunate women would accept whatever price they could get.

[lynn cates]

drab

Hello Septic. I believe there was a range. So, for example, an all nighter with Mary Kelly might fetch considerably more than most. I was thinking about the "drabs." (They were called drabs? Or is that more lore?)

The best.
LC

[Septic Blue]

--- Click the Above 'Thumbnail' to View the Applicable Portion of an 'A&E Biography' Documentary ---

2:36 / 9:53

Narrator: "In contrast, the 'East End'; where 900,000 impoverished people lived in cramped, filthy slums, ..."

This being said as a slide show depicts a photograph ("The Crawlers"; c. 1877) of a woman cradling a baby, on the steps of the Parish Workhouse of St. Giles in the Fields & St. George Bloomsbury, Short's Gardens, Endell Street, Parish of St. Giles in the Fields – a decidedly 'West End' location.

"900,000 impoverished people" ?????????

From the first of Charles Booth's three surveys …

"Labour and Life of the People: London", Williams & Norgate, 1889-1891

East London (Less Hackney):

- Total Population (1891 Census): 705,114
- Total Population (Charles Booth 1889 Estimate): 708,675

- Estimated Percentage; Class 'A' ('vicious' (i.e. vice-ridden), 'semi-criminal'): 1.33%
- Estimated Percentage; Class 'B' ('very poor'): 11.85%
- Estimated Percentage; Class 'C' ('poor' - irregular income): 9.00%
- Estimated Percentage; Class 'D' ('poor' - regular but inadequate income): 15.83%

- Estimated Percentage; Below the 'Line of Poverty': 38.00%

- Estimated Percentage; Class 'E' ('above the line of poverty' - regular 'standard' income): 44.31%
- Estimated Percentage; Class 'F' ('highly skilled labour'): 11.40%
- Estimated Percentage; Class 'G' ('lower middle-class'): 4.54%
- Estimated Percentage; Class 'H' ('upper middle-class'): 1.75%

- Estimated Percentage; Above the 'Line of Poverty': 62.00%

Booth's data would suggest that London's 'East End', in 1888, was inhabited by ~710,000 persons, of whom ~270,000 were "impoverished", and of whom ~94,000 "lived in cramped, filthy slums".

Those numbers are indeed alarming; but each is a 'far-cry' from being "900,000".

3:03 / 9:53

Martin Fido: "The 'East End' … at the end of the 1880's … an area where at any time, almost any woman might have to prostitute herself - as the only way to feed her children."

This being said as a slide show depicts a photograph ("Evicted"; from George R. Sims's "Living London") of an eviction scene, that I believe occurred in either Southwark or Bermondsey.

"an area where at any time, almost any woman might have to prostitute herself" ?????????

That is unadulterated bullshit!

3:45 / 9:53

Donald Rumbelow: "You could buy one of these women for three pennies, or two pennies, or a loaf of stale bread. The price of three pennies was fixed, because that was what the women would pay for a large glass of gin."

I have taken Rumbelow's tour, on three separate occasions. Each time, the above statement was made verbatim.

Donald Rumbelow has seized upon the proclamations of Jack London's tour-guide, regarding a very specific group of down-trodden 'dollymops'. In so doing, he has perpetuated a myth.

I believe we can rest assured that prostitutes of London's 'East End', in 1888, came in all 'shapes-and-sizes' and offered a multitude of 'services', for which there was an accordant range of 'going rates'.

As for the parameters of that 'range': We plainly and simply do not know what they were!

The conventional wisdoms of 'Ripperology' are in dire need of an 'overhaul'!

That should start with the realization that the likes of Martin Fido, Donald Rumbelow, et al are not infallible!

[lynn cates]

I'll retire to Bedlam

Hello Septic. Thanks.

[Heavy sigh.] Well, if one must take the authors cum grano salis, then do you know of anyone who would like to buy a library of ripper books?

Seriously, I usually disregard generalities like "starving masses" etc. but you'd think the factual claims were straight.

As Ebenezer Scrooge said, "I'll retire to Bedlam."

The best.
LC

[perrymason]

Interesting that the cost of a gin was the same as the cost of a bed for one night.....so not surprising that we see women having to be working for hours to satisfy both a need for shelter and food and a desire to be able to drink themselves into a state where street sleep can be managed.

Best regards