fire fuel

[CountessHappyBunny]

hi all -

i'm hoping someone can help me. i was wondering what the victorian poor used in their fires for fuel. coal? wood?

also, whatever they used, where did they get it? did they purchase it from the same stores where they might buy food (i.e. McCarthy's?) were there places they could steal it from? find it for free?

thanks in advance for any help with this!

[kensei]

This is just a guess, but in such a dirty and cluttered surrounding, I would imagine that just about anything flammable that could be found lying around went up in smoke (whether scavenged or stolen). "Found it!" must have been a popular explanation.

[Bob Hinton]

hi all -

i'm hoping someone can help me. i was wondering what the victorian poor used in their fires for fuel. coal? wood?

also, whatever they used, where did they get it? did they purchase it from the same stores where they might buy food (i.e. McCarthy's?) were there places they could steal it from? find it for free?

They scavenged. If you want to find out how the poor lived in those times look at any city in modern times that has been devastated by war or natural disaster. Once the thin veneer of civilisation is gone, the nasty side comes out to play.
Certainly street urchins would follow coal carts and walk the railway lines in the hope of picking up some free fuel. I have a personal theory that a lot of slaughter house waste would contain fat and thus be a possible source of fuel.
I can remember people in Wales scavenging through slag heaps in the hope of picking up some decent coal that bypassed the sorter.

[Suzi]

Good points there Bob!- Failing that the odd bonnet and few pieces of clothing go quite well!

Seriously though- anything that was dry enough agaist the dank air was fair game- I'm sure a lot of unnecessary (!) furniture went up the chimney....coal was probably a serious luxury!

[Mike Covell]

"Where there is muck there is brass"

I remember a tale I heard about people going out with buckets and shovels and collecting animal waste to burn. Apparently it burns for quite a long time, didn't cost anything, and was readily available to the Victorian population. The only downside was the smell.

I also recall reading about scavengers Bob, I am certain it was a book about the Thames, and how young boys and girls would go looking for driftwood and anything of value.

[CountessHappyBunny]

thanks all for the help!

[Barnaby]

Ah, I thought this thread might be about how fire fueled the Ripper. Gigantic fire the night of Nichols. Fire in MJK's room.

[John Savage]

Hi All,

One possible source of fuel wood have been the wooden blocks or "sets" used to build roads, they were coated with tar and once dried out burned well. I am not sure if these were used in Victorian times, but certainly later as these roads were re surfaced with tarmac.

Another cheap source of fuel was brickettes made of coal dust, I believe they were made in a mould and probably had some other ingredient to bind the dust into a solid form.

Old leather shoes burnt well too!

Rgds
John

[Robert]

A few months ago there were TV pictures of people in Zimbabwe sitting on skips and picking though the rubbish. I think the poor of the LVP would have sorted through any pile of trash in search of something remotely useful.

The people who worked in sewers were, I believe, called toshers and strange to say were reputedly immune to some of the infections that laid low the surface workers. But marriage into a tosher family was considered something of a social descent.

I think the toshers actually made a living at it - if the wild hogs didn't get them.

[deckard1]

Fire Fuel? Sounds like a name for a metal band!
Next up: Fire Fuel with their brand new single: Clip Your Ears Of!

[perrymason]

Hi all,

It would seem that there were a few things that the people of the East End might use for fuel for their homestead fires, and its worth remembering that in some cases, where people lodged in private rooms in lodging houses with no public kitchen, that some likely cooked over the fires they built. That might affect what fuel they would use...I doubt dung would be the choice for that usage.

But they had dung, of course coal, and wood...which would have been expensive for firewood but maybe they could scavenge wood from dilapidated buildings or old carts or barrels. They could use old clothing,... but I see so many cases of pawn/buyback that I think the clothes for many were commodities they could trade in when they needed some food or booze money...and recover later when they were more flush with cash. Ill bet thats what happened to Mary Janes "fine" dresses...only she never bought them back in time. I dont think she worked the streets unless all other avenues were dry....men in her life, clothes to hawk, borrowing....

That night in room 13 all we know were burned was a hat and some dress fabric...both of which partially survived the "intense heat" that melted the kettle spout off....which Abberline suggested. I doubt at that time Mary had much more than what was on the chair and her own back, so I lean towards the clothing being Maria's clients clothes...which to me is interesting because I wonder if they were burned for spite by the killer thinking that they were actually Marys, were they burned for light which would suggest that he took a great chance illuminating the room while a woman was dead on the bed, were they burned for heat cause it was mid-morning in November and the small room had holes in the window that the Pilot coat intended on covering....or were they used as fuel to burn something else?

I have my ideas on that last one....and they tie into the very odd personnel that visits the courtyard in the midst of the crowds and hullabaloo early the next week. I wonder what business might a Senior Post Office Official, Members of Parliament, and members of the Royal Irish Constabulary, have in that room?

The previous Ripper murder coincides with a Post Office Robbery that netted well over a thousand pounds and was thought to be executed by Irish self rule factions....who at the time were planning to assassinate Lord Balfour, The Irish Secretary.

Best regards

[Sam Flynn]

I wonder what business might a Senior Post Office Official, Members of Parliament, and members of the Royal Irish Constabulary, have in that room?

The previous Ripper murder coincides with a Post Office Robbery that netted well over a thousand pounds and was thought to be executed by Irish self rule factions....

...and the day of Kelly's murder coincided with the Lord Mayor's Show, which was held a few hundred yards away from Dorset Street, and because of this, a number of visiting dignitaries would have been in close proximity to the latest atrocity of the famous Ripper. If you were a "VIP tourist", who happened to have been in the City of London under such circumstances, wouldn't you have used your status to try to get in on the action in some way? Far better that, surely, than to stand on a chilly City street whilst the this latest and most sensational of the Whitechapel Murders rained, in more ways than one, on Sir James Whitehead's parade.

Quite what all this has to do with how the subject of this thread (viz., how the Victorian poor lit their fires) escapes me, but I thought the above was worth pointing out in context, in light of Mike's interjection, which risked stoking the flames of conspiracy on a completely inappropriate thread

[perrymason]

Youll note the direct and discernible thread consistent line of thought that lead to the conjecture that was added as mere personal commentary and not pitched as open for rebuttal discussion at this time Sam.

Best regards

[smezenen]

This website has some information on LVP cooking and heating. I was surprised to see just how much they knew about carbon monoxide poisoning or as they name it carbonic acid gas.

http://www.storyoflondon.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=316

As I look at the things listed on the site for use in fires it would seem to me that peat would probably be the most readily available and cheapest fuel. Of course I’m not sure how far it is from East London to the nearest peat bog, but I do know from the fires we had in one near where I live that stuff burn hot and long.