JtR: Asleep at the time?

[Pettifogger]

Purely for conjecture and quite seriously...

Was JtR under the influence of somnambulism? Could he have actually committed the murders and have no knowledge that he was the one who did it...a psychotic sleepwalker?

This would not be the first instance of someone who committed murder in their sleep. It would be the first (to my knowledge) multiple somnambular homicides.

[Howard Brown]

Excuse me Pettifogger...

I for one find it impossible to accept that a sleeping man or woman can kill someone and the death or deaths be classified as murder(s)....never did and never will.

Do you believe that these men committed murder while asleep? I know you are simply asking a question for some input. Thank you.

http://www.lakesidepress.com/pulmonary/Sleep/sleep-murder.htm

I think they had good lawyers.

[protohistorian]

if by asleep you mean no conscious knowledge of the act....yes. Respectfully Dave p.s. psychotic episodes of short duration, and most delusional thinking, radically effect the ability to internalize an action and might produce a similar effect. Respectfully Dave

[The Grave Maurice]

Howard is completely right. If it were true somnamulism, and they caught the perpetrator, he would be acquitted for lack of intent. Is it a likely theory? Nope. If nothing else, our boy knew exactly what he was doing. He was wide awake.

[Howard Brown]

Thanks for the support, Grave.

Dear Protohistorian:

No offense, but even these "psychotic" episodes that you refer to are conscious acts performed by genuinely affected individuals who could care less what or how their "performance" appears until they are either caught and/or faced with explaining their behavior. I think that its been remarked on at some point here or elsewhere in the past that there has been no known psychotic to ever commit murder without cognizance of that action at the time it was committed. No psychotic was mentioned in the link I provided for Pettifogger.

I, for one, do not believe a psychotic individual is ever unaware of what he is doing but rather the ability to control himself from doing it is out of his hands in many circumstances...but not the act of homicide. People with chemical imbalances, for instance, know what they are doing.... and I work with one... but can't "help themselves" from acting out their aberrant behavior until they take their psychotropic medicines. Thats not the same as not being cognizant of one's actions.

If someone knows of a psychotic who was unaware of their crimes at the time(s) they were committed ( murder ) please list them..

[Lord Lucan]

Somehow, methinks not.

[Brenda]

Imagine waking up in the morning and finding a fresh kidney or succulent uterus in your pocket.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Not only is the actual murder and mutilation part of a sleep walking Jack impossible to even think about, but can you imagine the conversation he must've had with his victims when accosting the prostitutes whilst asleep?

[perrymason]

I think that there is a form of waking sleep referred to as a fugue state, where the affected is awake and cognizant but in an altered state mentally. That person would not necessarily know what they did or where they were when they were in such a state, but they would have seemingly full capacities while in the state itself....conceivably doing intricate work or physical tasks.

Best regards

[protohistorian]

There is a complete class of similar behaviors in the DSM. They are Dissociative disorders. Respectfully Dave

[Mike Covell]

On the 10th of November 1888 the Hull and East Yorkshire and Lincolnshire Times ran an article on a court case that had occured on the 8th of that month, regarding a murder that had occured under the influence of hypnotism!

Fortean Times, Issue 245, dated February 2009, had an article in concerning Somnambulism, and featured cases from the 18th and 19th centures.

One case from 1859 describes how a Mrs Esther Griggs had thrown her son out of a window because she thought her house was burning down! Luckily, passing policemen ran into the building and woke her up! The case eventually made it to the Marylebone Police Court!

If anyone is interested in reading the article, do not hesitate to contact me.

[Pettifogger]

I ponder this...

Imagine waking up in the morning and finding a fresh kidney or succulent uterus in your pocket.

Not if you dined on them while in a fugue state...