History Teacher in need of HELP - Ripper Investigative Methods

[perrymason]

Markc,

A sample of Coles blood was taken after Coles murder. As John states, blood sampling was in its infancy but Stewart logically suggested that this sample could have been taken to test for narcotics in Coles blood.

Here attached is from Lloyds Weekly dated February 22nd 1891.

Sorry Monty, I missed the above....so Coles donated blood...I didnt recall any Canonical having blood drawn.

Cheers Monty

[perrymason]

Also would anyone like to enlighten me as to their opinion of the most significant flaws in the Ripper investigation ? This would enable me to compare with those of the Yorkshire Ripper case. Apparently Paul Begg stated the police were 'professional & competent' is this a fair assessment ? Donald Rumbelow believed 'Warren's biggest mistake was to keep the press at arms length' is this correct too ? Richard Jones appears to criticise the police in using 'old' methods rather than embracing the 'new' such as fingerprinting - any opinions ?

Thanks again to you all.

Personal opinion only......they didnt set up lane, street, and alley roadblocks...checking everyone out at night in that area......I think they could have made use of the bloodhounds very well with the Mitre Square murder...since we all would like to know whether the killer headed straight to Goulston after killing Kate or not. The washing of the GSG...could have been Kates murderers handwriting.....and lastly,...again my opinion, they should have been very discriminating about which murders should be grouped by their likely killer.....because the existing Canonical Group could only have been killed by a serial killer if one man.....and thats what most think he was.

If he only killed 2 or 3 women, he is a multiple killer, but the motivations for some of the killings may not be based in his psychopathy, maybe instead.. economic or anarchistic motivations.

I also see that the man I personally believe is the most informed of any Ripper researcher and writer has answered your post.....so you did get some big guns offering help.

This community is like that......ask an intelligent question, you will get help.

Cheers again Mark

[Monty]

Coles didnt donate the blood, it was retrieved from the scene. Swanson refers to the incident in a report.

Whilst Coles is generally dismissed as a victim of Jack, she was seriously considered at the time.

Monty

[perrymason]

Coles didnt donate the blood, it was retrieved from the scene. Swanson refers to the incident in a report.

Whilst Coles is generally dismissed as a victim of Jack, she was seriously considered at the time.

Monty

My assumption is that she wasnt seriously considered by anyone who backed a Canonical Group, anyone who backed a story that the killer drowned in December, anyone who believed that the Ripper was in an asylum in 1889 locked away for good, or anyone that believed he left the country.

So, in all liklihood, how many contemporary investigators really felt Coles should be included? She is killed 3 years after the "series" supposedly ends, and just a year before the case itself goes dormant....but then again, 5 years before we get a letter that gets everyone excited again.

Who knows what they really thought.

Cheers Montgomery.

[johns]

Lifted from Wikipedia and it highlights for me the sluggishness of the Plod to embrace anything of use before it's been around for ages everywhere else...

# 1880: Dr Henry Faulds published his first paper on the subject in the scientific journal Nature in 1880.Returning to the UK in 1886, he offered the concept to the Metropolitan Police in London but it was dismissed.
# 1892: Sir Francis Galton published a detailed statistical model of fingerprint analysis and identification and encouraged its use in forensic science in his book Finger Prints.
# 1892: Juan Vucetich, an Argentine police officer who had been studying Galton pattern types for a year, made the first criminal fingerprint identification. He successfully proved Francisca Rojas guilty of murder after showing that the bloody fingerprint found at the crime scene was hers, and could only be hers.
# 1897: The world's first Fingerprint Bureau opened in Calcutta (Kolkata), India after the Council of the Governor General approved a committee report (on 12 June 1897) that fingerprints should be used for classification of criminal records. Working in the Calcutta Anthropometric Bureau (before it became the Fingerprint Bureau) were Azizul Haque and Hem Chandra Bose. Haque and Bose were the Indian fingerprint experts credited with primary development of the fingerprint classification system eventually named after their supervisor, Sir Edward Richard Henry.
# 1901: The first United Kingdom Fingerprint Bureau was founded in Scotland Yard. The Henry Classification System, devised by Sir Edward Richard Henry with the help of Haque and Bose was accepted in England and Wales.

Boldy bits by me.

[Monty]

Coles is the last victim included in the Whitechapel murder casefile, so yes, she was considered.

Thats not so say some in authority felt she was. However compare her murder to Strides and you almost have a nigh on carbon copy.

If you include Stride then you must consider Coles in my opinion.

Monty

[perrymason]

Coles is the last victim included in the Whitechapel murder casefile, so yes, she was considered.

Thats not so say some in authority felt she was. However compare her murder to Strides and you almost have a nigh on carbon copy.

If you include Stride then you must consider Coles in my opinion.

Monty

On that basis, maybe she was killed by the same man as Liz. But thats not to say that Liz was killed by Jack. I would think one of the only things I feel fairly certain of is that Liz was connected with these crimes in error.....perhaps Liz should have been associated with other violent crimes or criminals based on your assessment.

All the best Monty.

[markc]

It seems like there were 4, often competing strands, to the Ripper inquiry. Coroners, press, police & the vigilante group - is this a fair assessment ?

It feels like the more I've found out, the less I seem to know about JTR - if that makes sense.

[perrymason]

It seems like there were 4, often competing strands, to the Ripper inquiry. Coroners, press, police & the vigilante group - is this a fair assessment ?

It feels like the more I've found out, the less I seem to know about JTR - if that makes sense.

The part in bold made me laugh Mark....I cant tell you how many students of the crimes say that.

I not sure what you are getting at with the above in terms of "competing strands"... but the Monarchy, Parliament, and International Law Enforcement all had tangential Ripper related discussions....in some cases the killer was thought to be from America or Australia, so that led to International case studies,.... even from South America or the Far East.

The notions about Jack the Ripper often had cultural or religious basis and were about as exotic as you can imagine.

Cheers Mark

[markc]

Perry,

The initial & obviously superficial feeling that I got was that the police, press & vigilante group(s) seemed to be doing a similar job at the same time, with little apparent support for each other &/or co-operation. For example, the questioning of Matthew Packer following the Stride murder. Of course it is relatively uninformed conclusion, based on very little research.

[markc]

Another request !

Could anyone please direct me to any drawings of possible suspects based on witness statement that may have appeared in the press or the locality (if they exist) ? Or copies of the leaflets handed out to local residents ?

Also, were there any methods now considered outlandish or any 'psychic' attempts to trace the killer during the Ripper investigation ?

[Robert]

Police officers dressed as women. They don't come more outlandish than that.

[perrymason]

Could anyone please direct me to any drawings of possible suspects based on witness statement that may have appeared in the press or the locality (if they exist) ? Or copies of the leaflets handed out to local residents ?

Also, were there any methods now considered outlandish or any 'psychic' attempts to trace the killer during the Ripper investigation ?

There is the story of the psychic that while on a local tram had a feeling that a man on the streetcar with him was the killer. He followed him until he got off....near the area where Gull and or Maybrick lived as I recall. There is a claim that was unusual....Michael Kidney claimed that if he was given some officers to place at certain points around the area he would surely catch the man, suggesting that the man was known and frequented the same places round town.

The police did publish facsimiles of Dear Boss and Saucy Jack to get information on the handwriting. And its rumored that some suspects had their writing samples reviewed and analyzed.

The main problem with that last one is that its most probable Jack didnt write any letters at all, so all a match could do is identify a hoax letter writer.

Cheers Mark

[markc]

"And its rumored that some suspects had their writing samples reviewed and analyzed."

Sorry to be picky, but do you know where these rumours originated ?

[perrymason]

"And its rumored that some suspects had their writing samples reviewed and analyzed."

Sorry to be picky, but do you know where these rumours originated ?

For one, its been reported that they sought Dr Tumblety's handwriting samples from a firm in San Francisco I believe. Again, the handwriting samples would only have value if they could prove that the killer wrote any letters....they didnt have a facsimile for the writing on the doorjamb on Goulston.

Sorry but I dont have the instant recall I once did. ..but I believe there were other suspects whose handwriting was checked.

Cheers Mark