The clincher

[brummie]

Just wondering how many board members still believe that the mystery will one day be solved and we will be able to say with certainty that X was Jack the Ripper and if so what would be the important piece of evidence that it would take for you to be certain of the rippers identity. Apart from a signed confession of course what would be the piece of evidence you dream of finding to solve this case.

[DVV]

Hi Brummie,

I think the "piece of evidence" lies in the Miller's Court murder, both domestic and lunatic, in my very humble opinion.

Amitiés,
David

[c.d.]

Hi Brummie,

I think certainty is the key word there. To be absolutely certain, there would have to be a diary or something similar identifying the murderer and providing details that match what we know of the murders. There would also have to be preserved organs. The remains of the victims would have to be exhumed and there would have to be a match in DNA between the organs and the DNA of the victims. The chances of all this happening seem pretty damn slim.

c.d.

[Christine]

Well, actually there are a lot of things that are possible, if very unlikely.

DNA is at least a possibility, although every time I bring it up on here, it gets shot down, but if technology improves then there is a chance of DNA or DNA-like technology being developed and used someday.

A Maybrick-type diary is possible, although anything undiscovered at this point is highly suspect.

Another possibility is that someone did know; I believe that it is likely that someone, possibly a family member, did figure it out, and that this person may have kept some sort of record. But again, how likely is it that such a record exists and is still unknown?

Other possibilities are asylum records and police records. There are supposedly police records that have still been sealed, and there remains the possibility that the police did figure it out but never bothered to act because the killer was already dead, in an asylum, or awaiting trial for another murder. Asylum and medical records may also be lying in a storeroom somewhere, waiting for someone to decide what to do with them.

It all seems unlikely, but then again, DNA was not even dreamt of 100 years ago, and a huge amount of information about Tumblety was just waiting for someone to notice it was out there. So who knows, there's always a chance.

[c.d.]

Hi Christine,

In what context are you talking about DNA?

c.d.

[Steelysama]

I still think that it can be solved at some point. There are a couple of suspects as it is for which a strong case can be made. And whatever else you can say about Patricia Cornwell, she did show the viability of doing DNA tests on Ripper-era items.

Any evidence which can be considered significant, I think, is probably in the form of a document or heirloom which is sitting in some forgotten place. Documents are an especially interesting possibility, as a century is a long time in which official documents might either be taken from archives or perhaps placed in an incorrect folder somewhere. For all we know, as an example, there might be an essential report on David Cohen which is in a file marked "Aaron David" or some such.

[brummie]

Surely DNA is only useful as a tool if you have something to compare it to. I'm sure I have seen a documentary in which DNA was obtained from an egyptian mummy so I don't think 120 years should be a problem but I am not sure where you would hope to obtain a sample of the killers DNA from or what you would compare it to before we even consider the contamination of samples not kept in sterile conditions for 100 years.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

I'm certain it won't be solved. There'll never be a way of knowing for sure who the killer was and all the suspects are only theories who aren't physically evidently linked to either of the murders.

To be honest, I think it's unlikely the actual murderer is among any of that lot, but that's just my opinion.

[Christine]

Hi, c.d.

There may still be deteriorated DNA on the victims. We might someday be able determine that a person who touched the victims was an ancestor or relative of a person still living, or that he had an ancestor from a very small geographic area.

This sounds unlikely, but actually we can do all this now with a piece of hair or bone. The main obstacle to doing this with deteriorated DNA is not the condition of the DNA but the lack of knowledge about how to interpret the data. It would be like trying to rebuild a book from shredded pieces of paper--the amount of success you have depends greatly on whether you can figure out what the book was originally about. Currently our "known library" is small.

Of course DNA in a grave would be any very poor condition, and better tools would be needed. But the difference at this point is more quantitative than qualitative. However I'm also told that the grave sites may not actually contain the victims, so that would also be an issue.

Anyhow, there are other possibilities, for example, we might find the Diary of Jack the Ripper with a bit of dried up kidney in it, and that could be a clincher, although as I said, if there is such a thing, it would likely have been found years ago....

[Archaic]

I agree with SteelySama... Hope Springs Eternal! -Archaic

[babybird67]

excavate some previous Klosowski homes...

body parts might show up.

[halomanuk]

I think it is a possibility of course,but it will have to be another piece of very important information that suddenly turns up to solve this.

There are obviously other clues,letters,photos out there - it's just finding them.
So basically luck will be the factor if JTR is to be known now.

[babybird67]

i also have great hopes...

for Steve's work on the photos of MJK. (see his thread, by sgh, in MJK part of site)

[DarkPassenger]

One day a peice of evidence will emerge which will definately point to a suspect. I personally believe that Eddows' dress is the key - there is a DNA profile on that, even if our technology cannot yet access enough information from it.

[brummie]

One day a peice of evidence will emerge which will definately point to a suspect. I personally believe that Eddows' dress is the key - there is a DNA profile on that, even if our technology cannot yet access enough information from it.

Trouble is even if you could extract usable and un-contaminated DNA there are still two problems that immediatrly spring to mind 1) With Eddowes working as a prostitute you would expect to obtain several different samples from her dress, how do you decide which one is the killer? and 2) What would you compare the sample to?