Was Kosminski's seaside home, seaside house?

[FlyingDutchman42]

I do not know if this information is of any value,
but in the Paul Begg book "Jack the ripper, the facts"
(the 2006 edition) I read (on page 367)
"Swanson tells us a bit more. The indentification took place at the seaside home, which is almost certainly the
Convalescent Seaside Home"

Now, I have read in a book about the period
that there was also a Royal Hospital for the Incurables
on the following address "Seaside House, 55 Marina street". (Which existed already in 1888)
Well, it is an interesting thought I think.

robert, flying dutchman 42

[aspallek]

Yes, that is worth checking out. Actually, there where a number of establishments in the period that were known as "seaside home" or something similar.

[Mike Covell]

During a research trip to London I noticed in the yearbooks for 1887/1888 and 1888/1889 an entry that stated,(1)

"Patients would be sent to Convalescent homes for the simple reason of keeping Hospital running costs down"

Although no names are given of the homes it does mention Brighton.


It is possible they
A) Could not accomadate
B) Could not treat
C) Thought he was relieved of hos condition but suggested he stay there.

Unfortunatley neither the Minutes books for 1888 and 1888, and the Year books for the same periods mention any names.*

Mike

Sources
1887/1888 London Hospital Yearbook LH/A/15/1888
1888/1889 London Hospital Yearbook LH/A/15/1889
*At least not known Ripper suspects.

[FlyingDutchman42]

I have read this information in "Dickens's
Dictionary of London 1888" (reprint 2003 )
the seaside house address was in Leonard's on sea

By the way, this "Dictionary of London", is highly
interesting.
You can read about hospitals in london: addresses, names
of doctor's, visiting times.
Information on cabs, hansoms, prices of fairs.
London tramway lines, and fairs etc, etc.
Lots of interesting addresses in London.

robert

[Dan Norder]

And of course we can't forget the Seamen's Home, at which the main suspect in the Frances Coles murder, Thomas Sadler, was staying when Lawende was brought in to try to identify him as the person seen with Catherine Eddowes outside of Mitre Square shortly before she was found killed. I have to agree with Stewart Evans and Don Rumbelow that this is very likely to be more than a mere coincidence.

[Celesta]

Also from the online Dickens' dictionary, I found:

1) Seaside Hospital---Seaford, w/ a London office @ 8 Charing Cross---founded in 1860.

2) Royal Sea-bathing Infirmary at Margate

3) Convalescent Hosp. for Seamen @ Greenwich

4) Seaside Convalescent Hospital, sec., 36, Southampton-st, Strand

5) The Sailor's Home--Well-Street, London-Docks. Home & c. for Sailors on shore. (This could be an office.)


The only thing I came up with for 55 Marina was a "Private school" with Ann Edgar, as mistress apparently.


As for 1 -5 above, I don't yet know if these are coincident with the Ripper era.


P.S.

There is also The Sailor's Home in Poplar and The Sailor's Home in Aldgate, Whitechapel. Once again, I don't yet know for sure if these were penecontemporaneous with JTR. The source for these is Gendocs for England and Wales.

[FlyingDutchman42]

I found my information on page 125 of the
reprint of the "Dickens Dictionary of London 1888"
The publisher of the reprint is "Old house Books"
in Devon I believe.
(I hope I am allowed to say this, if not than please
delet this, have no personal interest as I am
not even british...would like to have been
an east-ender though..! )

robert, flying dutchman 42

[Celesta]

I found my information on page 125 of the
reprint of the "Dickens Dictionary of London 1888"
The publisher of the reprint is "Old house Books"
in Devon I believe.
(I hope I am allowed to say this, if not than please
delet this, have no personal interest as I am
not even british...would like to have been
an east-ender though..! )

robert, flying dutchman 42

Hi Robert,

That's a nice reminder about the page numbers. I got the above from the online version. They came from the health-hygiene section and from the charitable section. I didn't notice any page numbers though. Thanks.

Best Wishes,

Celesta

[Celesta]

Here is an old postcard with a The Sailor's Home and Harbour Mission in Kent. I forget the scale of some of these institutions. This seaside home evokes a different sort of image than the one I previously had for Swanson's Seaside home.

[The Station Cat]

The indentification took place at the seaside home, which is almost certainly the
Convalescent Seaside Home"

One thing, I've always been curious about, when considering facts about the case is WHY did the police take him to a convalescent seaside home and not just a local mental asylum?

I believe the convalescent seaside home was somewhere, that injured bobbies and the like went, why would they send "Jack the Ripper" there?

[barnflatwyngarde]

One thing, I've always been curious about, when considering facts about the case is WHY did the police take him to a convalescent seaside home and not just a local mental asylum?

I believe the convalescent seaside home was somewhere, that injured bobbies and the like went, why would they send "Jack the Ripper" there?

They would send him there, if indeed the witness was a policeman.

I have always thought that it was a distinct possibility that the "witness" was a policeman.

This of course relies on Swanson's statement that the witness was Jewish, being wrong.

[Pcdunn]

Barnflat, do you think the witness (why the quotation marks, by the way?) was not only a policeman, but also an injured policeman?

[barnflatwyngarde]

Barnflat, do you think the witness (why the quotation marks, by the way?) was not only a policeman, but also an injured policeman?

Hi Pc,
The problem in dealing with this topic is the unequivocal nature of the Swanson Marginalia.

Swanson is quite clear in stating that the witness was Jewish, but this statement itself raises some issues.

We are asked to accept that when the witness stated that he would refuse to testify in court re the positive identification of the suspect, the Police simply shrugged their shoulders and muttered something like "Oh well, win some lose some!"

The points raised by Station Cat are interesting ones.

Why would the police take the suspect to a Police Convalescent Home for a face to face meeting with a witness?

It is possible that the witness was indeed a police officer, quite possibly convalescing.

However, accepting this possibility means that we have to look anew at Swanson's comments re the identification.

Paul Begg sums up the problem of Swanson's comments very well when he says:

"Swanson does not tell a complicated story, but on hearing it one feels like a child who compulsively asks "why?" of every detail."

(Jack the Ripper: The Facts pge 353)

[Pcdunn]

Hi, Barnflat,

Interesting! I think Begg's summary does raise questions and speculations:
Why say there was a civilian witness, if it was a policeman?
If it was a policeman, is there a missing (or deliberately lost) report about the incident in which the suspect was taken?
Why put the blame on an immigrant Jew, if it wasn't true? Yes, covering up an English suspect would protect the status quo, as would covering up an anarchist plot, but wouldn't blaming the Jews lead to the sort of trouble that wiping away the GSG was supposed to eliminate?
Why, why, why...
Thanks for the reply, and I hope you and yours had a very Merry Christmas, indeed.

[The Station Cat]

The theory that the "witness" was a police officer and refused to testify against "Jack" because he was a fellow Jew is preposterous to say the least, police officers (even in Victorian times) can't pick and choose who they give evidence against!!!

It was always my understanding that Kosminski was in the convalescent home and the witness was brought to him?

So again why was Kosminski taken to a police seaside convalescent home and not just a public care institute? The Convalescent home was just that a place for injured officers to recover and having gone there you wouldn't expect to be sharing these facilities with the criminals or general members of the public for that matter?

We've got Jack at last, I know lets send him to the Convalescent home????