Anti-semetism and Mary Kelly

[Malcolm X]

Oh Yes! Hutchinson's our man, alright!

yea' we need a good laugh around here.. just you wait till the BLOTCHY thread

Oh Yes! Hutchinson's our man, alright!

[Malcolm X]

....it was almost certainly left by the man that killed Kate Eddowes. So if he is going to leave a message as well, why would it pertain to Kates death at all? Thats covered by the bloody apron section...and we have reason to believe that no Jews either blamed anyone for Kates death, nor did they evade blame for it....because the killer makes it clear, he killed her.

Best regards all.

sorry a minor point here, it was DEFINITELY left by Kate's killer; we have to be far more positive around here and to start believing in something.... the writing was also left by the killer and it refers to Stride..whatever it means ( from a non Hutchinson killer)

[Ben]

Mike,

Charles Warren reported to the Home Office that the GSG was "evidently written with the intention of inflaming the public mind against the Jews".

Donald Swanson also believed that the killer's intention was to "throw the blame upon the Jews"

[Malcolm X]

it's only anti-semetic, if HUTCHINSON was the ripper, if not; the GSG can be interpreted as meaning something else.

the killer of course could indeed be a Jew and he could be saying ``you lot will blame us anyway; so what does it matter``

because the inverse reads, ``the jews are the men that will be blamed for everything``... strictly speaking, this isn't anti-semetic.... it could be a cynical comment only..

``everything`` could be a huge clue too, because Stride is the only murder in Dutfields with a strong JEWISH connection; if he's refering to that why didn't he say ``the jews are the men that will be blamed for earlier on``.

but no, it looks like he's saying ``the JEWS are the men that will be blamed for all murders ( everything)``

it also looks strangely enough, as if he's seen all the huff and puff on BERNER ST as he's walking past and he's thought, ``look at that, another murder, it's the other geezer he's started killing again...the Jews will get blamed for that one; look at the locality, Jews everywhere``

or it could mean, ``i killed in DUTFIELDS, so that the Jews are the men that will be blamed for everything``.......good grief, this feels very close indeed; i'm feeling a bit strange!

anyway, the GSG can only be interpreted as anti-semetic in conjunction with HUTCHINSON'S statements/actions.

See, you lose me on the GSG being something that isnt necessarily accusatory.....I think citing a specific ethnic group and inserting the word "blame" makes that just about impossible. Its at face value either accusing them of rightly or wrongly not being blamed.

When the context is added that Jack didnt kill Liz but was being blamed for the killing by Jews on Jewish property...I think thats a compelling case for a Ripper disclaimer more than misdirection.

Why doesnt he write something right over the cloth? Because the cloth speaks for itself....it was almost certainly left by the man that killed Kate Eddowes. So if he is going to leave a message as well, why would it pertain to Kates death at all? Thats covered by the bloody apron section...and we have reason to believe that no Jews either blamed anyone for Kates death, nor did they evade blame for it....because the killer makes it clear, he killed her.

Best regards all.

[Ben]

Even if we make the assumption that the Ripper killed Stride and wrote the graffiti, that doesn't necessarily mean he was making an antisemitic statement or was trying to capitalize on antisemitism to deflect suspicion.

No, but as Sugden astutely observes, it's a very reasonable conclusion to deduce from the evidence. I'd be far more surprised if the killer didn't take advantage of Jew-directed prejudice, especially when it was such as easy thing to acheive. It's also possible that the idea of deflecting suspicion in a Jewish direction came about as a result of having been seen/interrupted at both double event murders.

[Malcolm X]

Youve never had an argument from me that the interpretation of some of the events of the night of the Double Event is by some, antisemitic in nature and perhaps intentionally so, but If Jack didnt kill Liz then that is a greatly diminished possibility, because nothing about Kates murder has any connection to Judaism other than some witnesses to Kate and a Sailor, and the Jewish population adjacent to the piece of apron left behind.

Liz is seen by a Jew, outside a piece of Jewish private property that houses Jewish Socialists that hold meetings for hundreds of other Jewish socialists, and is found by the Club Steward a Jew, and soon after, is surrounded by many other Jews from that Club.

If any murder that night had actual Jewish participants and property as key elements and the focal points of the investigation, it wasnt Kates.

Her murderer is being blended into this antisemitism theorizing based... at this point...., on his placement of some cloth. And Hutch is a vehicle for that kind of theorizing based....at this point... on the fact he invents a Jewish man as a suspect.

My best regards as always friend.

this isn't a slack theory, it's highly suspicious and well founded... it could of course be wrong, because BLOTCHY could be the Ripper; but if the ripper was indeed Hutch, then this theory is definitely correct..... simply becaue of what he said to the police.

i'm refering to HUTCH as the Ripper, the anti-semetism only applies to him..................not BLOTCHY as the Ripper, this is totally different; because he's not being anti-semetic, we've no idea what the other ripper suspect was up to.... be careful here, dont misinterpret me.

i know something about BLOTCHY FACE/KELLY, yes i played an OUIJA BOARD, but i dont know if the spirit i contacted was a Demon or whatever the hell it was and i'm not playing again to find out, (well, not on my own anyway) and i dont believe what it said either, but i wont disclose anything till i open the BLOTCHY thread.... but it's still quite interesting, because i got quite a few answers to other Ripper questions too, i played sunday night.......... you'll either hear a pack of lies on an OUIJA board or the truth, but the key is to treat it with great respect and never to play it too often.

[Barnaby]

Even if we make the assumption that the Ripper killed Stride and wrote the graffiti, that doesn't necessarily mean he was making an antisemitic statement or was trying to capitalize on antisemitism to deflect suspicion. Maybe he was just frustrated by having just been interrupted with Stride. That would explain why the "Jewish card" wasn't played on the nights of the other murders.

[Ben]

Hi Mike,

Again, I don't see anti-semitism as an over-riding agenda here so much as Jew-implicating. You can take advantage of a scapegoat without harbouring any deep-seated ill-will towards the scapegoat itself. The connections to the Jewish angle cannot be gainsaid, and to reiterate Sugden's observation:

"...Martin Friedland's suggestion that the murders were carefully contrived to throw as much suspicion as possible on the Jewish community deserves better than it has received by modern commentators. The murder of Elizabeth Stride next to the International Working Men's Education Club, the apparent hailing of an accomplice by the name "Lipski", the murder of Kate Eddowes close to another club (The Imperial) frequented by Jews, and the message "The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing" chalked in the entry of a house of Jewish tenements - these signify little by themselves but, taken together, begin to a make a persuasive case"

Best wishes as always, mate.

Ben

Youve never had an argument from me that the interpretation of some of the events of the night of the Double Event is by some, antisemitic in nature and perhaps intentionally so, but If Jack didnt kill Liz then that is a greatly diminished possibility, because nothing about Kates murder has any connection to Judaism other than some witnesses to Kate and a Sailor, and the Jewish population adjacent to the piece of apron left behind.

Liz is seen by a Jew, outside a piece of Jewish private property that houses Jewish Socialists that hold meetings for hundreds of other Jewish socialists, and is found by the Club Steward a Jew, and soon after, is surrounded by many other Jews from that Club.

If any murder that night had actual Jewish participants and property as key elements and the focal points of the investigation, it wasnt Kates.

Her murderer is being blended into this antisemitism theorizing based... at this point...., on his placement of some cloth. And Hutch is a vehicle for that kind of theorizing based....at this point... on the fact he invents a Jewish man as a suspect.

My best regards as always friend.

[Malcolm X]

Hi Mike,



It would be pretty astonishing to find a connection between any given suspect and more than one ripper crime. Hutchinson aside, I consider it very significant that both double event murders were committed in close proxmiity to two Jewish clubs and one synagogue, not to mention the location of the apron and, if he wrote it, the GSG. I don't want to copy huge chunks from the thread I provided a link to earlier, but suffice to say I'm not alone in recognising the merit in the suggestion that the killer sought to deflect suspicion in a Jewish direction, and that there are strong indications of this from the double event in particular.

Hutchinson's subsequent attempts to cast aspertions in the direction of a Jewish-looking man unquestionably conform to that pattern. That doesn't mean that any "anti-semitism" is involved, but it might well imply that the ripper sought to make the most of popular prejudice.

as you know Ben i agree with you 100%, but at best all we can say is that HUTCH looks highly suspicious, because BLOTCHY still concerns me; very much so

[Ben]

Hi Mike,

Not only is Hutch unconnected on paper to any other Ripper crime or night, its not even proven that the Ripper killer wrote the GSG himself....or that its meaning isnt pro-Jew

It would be pretty astonishing to find a connection between any given suspect and more than one ripper crime. Hutchinson aside, I consider it very significant that both double event murders were committed in close proxmiity to two Jewish clubs and one synagogue, not to mention the location of the apron and, if he wrote it, the GSG. I don't want to copy huge chunks from the thread I provided a link to earlier, but suffice to say I'm not alone in recognising the merit in the suggestion that the killer sought to deflect suspicion in a Jewish direction, and that there are strong indications of this from the double event in particular.

Hutchinson's subsequent attempts to cast aspertions in the direction of a Jewish-looking man unquestionably conform to that pattern. That doesn't mean that any "anti-semitism" is involved, but it might well imply that the ripper sought to make the most of popular prejudice.

[Malcolm X]

hi Perrymason/ Sam

we had a few years ago, a theory that there were two serial killers operating at the same time in this locality, but not working together... it was one of my crazy theories, i got quite a bit of stick over it

but it doesn't seem so crazy now, this other lunatic killed more than the ripper, but of course, he wasn't interested in the mutilations... he was responsible for many of those after Kelly too....

there's something not right during these few years, because there were little or no murders before or after this time period ( we researched this ), a careless random killer that varied his M.O slightly...maybe, maybe not!....

[Sam Flynn]

I don't see any antisemitism in any of the C5 murders, Mike. As I've mentioned before, the alleged "proximity" of the Imperial Club is tenuous in the extreme, and it's hardly surprising that three Jews walked past Catherine Eddowes in what was an area with a large Jewish population. If Lawende et al had been Bantu warriors or Eskimos, we might be onto something. As it is, their passing by was no more remarkable than a walk-past by three Chinese gentlemen in Chinatown, and the proximity of Jewish premises no more unusual than the proximity of Pekinese Restaurants under similar circumstances.