Did noone see anything or anyone weird?

[Lika]

There is something that bothers me.
Jack must have been a hell of an actor or really must have kept his cool.
He murdered 5 if not more woman.People MUST have seen someone who behaved odd or different.If they havent seen someone then Id say he must have either been:
1. A really good actor or someone who can play a fake role to the people around him.
2. Maybe he really is the coldest killer I've ever seen.

or
3. someone with no friends.A loner.A person people wouldnt really care about or wanna talk to.(maybe thats why he killed them.Because he wanted attention so bad "just a theory though")

Anyways I cant imagine noone saw a person behave weird.Or they saw someone and didnt report it.Eventhough he was whitechapels nightmare.

[Limehouse]

I think it's precisely because the murderer was able to blend into the background that he remained at large. There are many examples of murderers picking victims off the streets and remaining at large for long periods. These include Peter Sutcliffe and Peter Kurten but there are many others besides. In all of these examples the killers carried on with their lives, keeping their jobs, maintaining marriages and looking anything but weird.

[Suzi]

Exactly!

Don't want to go off on my usual here- but I can never be persuaded that the one known as JTR was a grey man- one who blended in with/was one of the characters and part of the local 'scenery'...alongside that you have the tantalising option that he may have been one of the 'trusted' people on the streets.

No one looks for the obvious,or the bloke in the court next door or the room upstairs would have been suspect No 1!!
The Sutcliffes and the Kurtens et al. of this world prove this (to a degree.)

The image of our man is one who mixed with most ,if not all of the crowds following discovery of the bodies I M H O

Suzi

[Grim]

Everyone behaved weird back in those days, so Jack would have fit right in.

[TheWickerMan]

It's funny how nobody heard or saw anything from the windows of the numerous Victorian tenements still dotted around the murder sites till this day.

[Mitch Rowe]

If the women had no idea JTR was the ripper and he catches them by surprise it explains it. But its more likely the ripper was a strong person to be able to subdue them so quickly.

[Nicola]

I tend to believe that there were many people who met JTR and could sense that he was a complete freak. Call it sixth sense,but there are times when you meet someone and they are just off putting. You can't explain it,but they just make you uneasy. I don't think he was a raving lunatic type but was just a loner,who kept to himself. When he did interact with someone who was sensitive to that sort of vibe,they knew he was a weird one.

People probably did inform the police of their odd neighbor,strange co worker and such,they just didn't pay any attention or received so many tips they couldn't investigate them all.


I wish the police had talked more to the ladies of the night. I've done social work and a lot of those ladies know when a weird guy is loose on the streets. I bet that many of them came across JTR and their instincts warned them,saving their lives. As for nobody seeing anything,perhaps there was a mind your business attitude and don't get involved sort of thing.

[TheWickerMan]

Nicola, I disagree with you. Claiming that one can 'know' or 'sense' this wierdness is usually seeing what one wants to see. Nothing unusual is felt at the time but in retrospect one grabs at any clue and labels it wierdness. This is generally, I think, the case though there may be exceptions.

[Lika]

I agree with Nicola.The prostitutes know the streets like barely anyone else.
It surprises me they seemed to have noticed NOTHING!
I know that they kinda have the skill to read (not sense) people well.Afterall they have men around them so often.
Could it be that a few knew something but were to afraid to speak because they didnt want Jack after them?(Eventhough noone was really safe from him at that time)
Cmon what would you guys do after killing 5 women?Continue your life as if nothing happened?I dont think something like that just goes past you that easily.Id feel extremely nervous and when Im nervous I start to sweat or I cant talk properly.

[Jane Coram]

Hi Lika,

I can see your reasoning, and you are certainly right that there are some people that seem to have a certain aura of 'blackness' for want of a better word. Animals can often sense something and will run from certain people, or even attack them, so there are certainly some people that can't cover up their malevolence, but it's not always the case.

If all serial killers looked or acted in a way that set them apart from others and made them look suspicious there would be no serial killers, because they would be picked up almost immediately and would never have the opportunity to go on and kill again. A great many serial killers are just average joe's that wouldn't raise a flicker of suspicion in anyone.

The most common comments from neighbours and friends of killers is 'Oh he was such a lovely man, one of the kindest and nicest people I've ever met.' They are completely stunned that the person had killed x number of people.

I think there is a very good chance Jack would have been amongst the crowd, watching the police and the reactions to the murders and getting a kick out of it, without raising so much as a sideways glance from the people around him.

Hugs

Jane

xxxx

[Jane Coram]

Hi Nicola,

The police did interview the locals very intensively following the murders, and this included prostitutes, in fact a fair proportion of the female witnesses that gave inquest testimony were either part time or full time prostitutes. People like Mary Kelly's friend Maria Harvey for instance.

A lot of people were willing to give information to the police. The newspapers and the inquest reports give detailed accounts of people who did see and hear something they thought was suspicious, or that they thought they had seen someone that might be Jack the Ripper. Some of them were obviously mistaken, some just making things up to get a few minutes of fame, and some possibly did give descriptions of the real Jack the Ripper. A fair amount of the reports did involve some very strange behaviour and speech on the part of the suspect.

Trouble is of course no-one can tell which is fact and which fancy - (although some are obviously rubbish) and the same was true back then. The police had to try and sort out which accounts were worth taking seriously and which they should ignore.

You're quite right though that many seem to have been selectively blind and deaf when it came to the murders. In the case of Martha Tabram for instance, it seems very odd that no-one in the block of flats heard a thing. It's possible they didn't, but there do seem to be have been more than the average number of people with very bad eyesight and hearing in the area at the time, when it suited them. It does seem quite likely that some of them did witness something but didn't want to pass the information on for some reason.

Hugs

Jane

xxxx

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

Don't want to go off on my usual here- but I can never be persuaded that the one known as JTR was a grey man- one who blended in with/was one of the characters and part of the local 'scenery'...alongside that you have the tantalising option that he may have been one of the 'trusted' people on the streets.

No one looks for the obvious,or the bloke in the court next door or the room upstairs would have been suspect No 1!!
The Sutcliffes and the Kurtens et al. of this world prove this (to a degree.)

The image of our man is one who mixed with most ,if not all of the crowds following discovery of the bodies I M H O

Suzi

Hi Suzi,
You have hit the nail on the head with the "tantalizing option".
JTR was part of the "local scenery" for ~3 decades-trusted and beyond reproach.
He was fairly well known to the victims and the investigators.

[Mitch Rowe]

George R Sims/Nov.18, 1888.

The probabilities are that the monster known as Jack the Ripper is at the present moment living in the calm and peaceable enjoyment of his quiet lodging or flat, within one mile of the scene of his exploits. He is not a man who uses common lodging-houses; he is not a sailor who has to go on board his ship to sleep; he does not apply for a bed at coffee-houses, and he does not have to take a long walk to disappear after his work is done. In either of these cases the chances are a million to one that he would have been spotted by someone and connected with the crimes in consequence of the peculiarity of his conduct or of his appearance. He is probably a man of the type of the Alton murderer, who, after butchering a little girl in the most awful manner, entered in his diary against the date, "Killed a little girl - nice and warm." This form of mania takes a fierce delight in the sight of blood, and is a form that is well known to experts in criminal cases. Such a man, for example, was Dr. Tardieu, of Paris. The man's face would betray him to an expert. The features in most of these bloodthirsty maniacs are peculiar - especially the mouth, the chin, and the eyes. If you look at a collection of the photographs of criminals of the Alton type (I had such a collection myself for years, and it only got scattered by friends borrowing one or two and forgetting to return them), you will see at once what I mean.

If a thorough and searching inquiry were made among the unfortunate women of the neighbourhood of the murders, it would be found that many of them know a man of this type (let the police show them a photograph or two of the Alton kind), and it will be found that many of them have seen him lately, and probably been spoken to by him. It was a man of exactly this type, I gather from the slight description (peculiar looking), who spoke to the Kennedys on the night of the last murder. Once fix this point and the police can narrow their search, for they will know the description and type of man for whom they must look.

[Limehouse]

I tend to believe that there were many people who met JTR and could sense that he was a complete freak. Call it sixth sense,but there are times when you meet someone and they are just off putting. You can't explain it,but they just make you uneasy. I don't think he was a raving lunatic type but was just a loner,who kept to himself. When he did interact with someone who was sensitive to that sort of vibe,they knew he was a weird one.

People probably did inform the police of their odd neighbor,strange co worker and such,they just didn't pay any attention or received so many tips they couldn't investigate them all.


I wish the police had talked more to the ladies of the night. I've done social work and a lot of those ladies know when a weird guy is loose on the streets. I bet that many of them came across JTR and their instincts warned them,saving their lives. As for nobody seeing anything,perhaps there was a mind your business attitude and don't get involved sort of thing.

Nicola,

I am afraid I find this conclusion quite disturbing. There are many people in this world who choose to be 'loners'. Some of them are very shy, some of them have Asperger's Syndrome, making it difficult for them to mix socially. They may come across as strange to other people, but that does not make them dangerous individuals capable of murder.

There are two cases I can think of, where two men, thought strange by their community, were convicted of murders they did not commit. One is Stefan Kisco, accused of a horrible child murder, and picked out because he was thought 'strange'. What in fact made him appear 'strange' was an untreated endocrine condition. It was later discovered that he could not have committed this crime because he was unable to produce the semen found at the scene. He spent many years in jail and died soon after being relased.

The other 'killer' was Barry George, again someone who was thought to be 'strange and weird' by locals, who was in fact a man who found it hard to make and keep friends - probably because of Asperger's Syndrome - which would account for his obsessions with certain people.

So you see, if you look for strangeness you may find many innocent people.

[perrymason]

I think Nicola has a valid point....the type of serial killer we are talking about would be one of the more dangerous types on any Profilers scale, ...starting with the assumption he killed and mutilated strangers "just for the jolly". I believe that this type of guy is almost always a loner type. Were not talking about him having to charm anyone like Bundy did...it was a business transaction that starts the whole thing, he could have smelled like fish and had filthy clothes and breath... these women could not afford to be discriminating types. Gein, Dahlmer, Unibomber, Berkowitz, McVeigh and many others in that category of killer were in effect loners. Charlie Manson is a loner type despite the evident charm and mind control elements in his crimes. Chapman,....there are lots of examples.

Perceived or actual Alienation can often be the source of this type of individuals angst and the violent outbursts...look at the social profile of the kids in school shootings in recent years.

A few years ago I proposed doing some Data Security work for an International Health Services firm based out of Canada. At the Sales presentation and some follow up meetings we discussed specifics with some of their IT staff in attendance. There was an awkward fella at the meeting who was disconnected, didnt ask a question, didnt take a note. I thought he was odd.

I can say this because I did retrospectively review my exposure to this person to assess whether I did note some abnormality with him. A few weeks after the last meeting he was arrested after turning himself into the police for kidnapping, raping and cutting a young girl into pieces....disposing of her remains in duffle bags in garbage cans around the city.

Some are visibly and noticeably odd....but that doesnt always signal danger is ahead.

The landlady on Batty Street heard her roomer enter very early in the morning, and she knew he kept to himself and kept odd hours at the same time as the post midnight killings were going on...but it wasnt until he gave her a blood stained shirt to wash the morning after a bloody murder took place that she came forward with any suspicions.

Best regards all.