Zulu influences?

[Cap'n Jack]

Trev likes the remarkable though, Sam, like ships that should be in the Port of London while they is really limping around the island of Madeira wivout rudder.

[Trevor Marriott]

gentlemen
i would urge you to read up on the Anatomy Act 1832 this clearly permits bona fide medical personell to use bodies and body parts for reserach. Students would come under that banner i would suggest.

There are a number of provisos one of which related to bodies of people dying in the workhouse. My point here is that Annie Chapmas body was taken to a workhouse building used as a mortuary.

So i would suggest all you people who subscribe to the theory that jack removed the organs at the scene should really have a re think.

There are a number of intersting article to be found on the Anatomy Act so DYOR.

[Cap'n Jack]

You all need to chill out there, Trev, I gotta spare fridge if you need it.
It seems quite obvious to me that there were no medical students involved, or even present at or in any of the PM's carried out on the victims... but rather a couple of old lags whose only interest in an organ would have been grinding one. Now all we need is a monkey.

[perrymason]

If anything Trevor I think it would be far more likely to consider "carrion feeders" scooping out something from a woman they find cut open while the body was still out in public....and neither that nor the idea that student pilfered organs while the womens bodies waited for autopsy make any real sense.

My suggestion could have happened with Annie and Marys organ theft, but Kates by the timing alone of Lawendes sighting precludes any wanderers from being able to come across Kate sometime between the PC glance in and the left hand beat PC entering at 1:43-44.

Cheers

[Trevor Marriott]

Well i see the sales of blinkers and rose tinted glasses have still been blossoming

[perrymason]

Well i see the sales of blinkers and rose tinted glasses have still been blossoming

By no means lecturing....but I find if you are presenting ideas that you have to others with the hopes of some support...suggesting that they are merely fooling themselves if they dont agree with you might not be the best way to go about it.

Maybe Ive also been guilty of being insensitive regarding other perspectives,....but that may be due to my goals here which are really to discuss the variables with the cases with some interesting friends....not to solve anything.

If your selling the student heists theory... then contradict us with some concrete proof.


Best regards

[Supe]

Trev,

Tell you what, I did have a rethink and your theory is still nonsense. But keep flogging the books--the observation imputed to my fellow Nutmegger P.T. Barnum does have some validity.

Don.

[Archaic]

Nutmegger

I grew up in Connecticut, so here's a translation of ''Nutmegger" for all you poor benighted non-Connecticut-Yankees:

Connecticut is known as The Nutmeg State because Old time Yankee Peddlers were so slick they could "sell a wooden nutmeg" as the real thing.


>>>>> THIS WAY TO EGRESS >>>>>



Best regards, Archaic the Nutmegger

[Trevor Marriott]

In response to the two previous posts and the opinions given by the two posters which i know have also been mirrored on here before by other posters.

I would ask them to back up their nonesensical beleifs with hard evidnce which disproves that theory.

Secondly i would ask them to come up with any primary evidence which proves the original theory that the killer removed the organs at the scene. Because my investigation has now cast a doubt. After all no detailed examination of the bodies of Eddowes or Chapman was made at the scene so no one knows if the organs had been removed or not.

The answer is that there is no primary evidence to prove or disprove either theory. What there is in both my theory and the original theory is secondary evidence.

It is therfore left to each individual poster/researcher/ripperologist to assess and evaluate the secondary evidence in both theories and make up their own mind as to which if any they choose to side with.

[Dorian Gray]

Trevor,

Given your theory, I'm curious as to which wounds you ascribe to the killer of Eddowes and Chapman? Where did the murderer stop, so to speak?

Regards,

Dorian

[Trevor Marriott]

My previous post relates to the original theory that the killer removed the organs from the victims at the scene of the crime.

Of course one cannot also discount the fact that if other person or persons other than the killer had removed the organs then the abdominal cavities in both victims may have been opened up to a greater extent which would have then misled the doctors into suggesting that the killer removed the organs.

[Dorian Gray]

Trevor,

Sorry, but I'm now somewhat confused:

I thought you were positing that medical professionals or students were possibly responsible for the removal of organs from Eddowes or Chapman once their bodies had been moved to the mortuary.

If I am incorrect in this brief summation or theory attribution please accept my apologies.

Regards,

Dorian

[The Good Michael]

Police interview


Inspector: Okay then, you say you killed her with a cut to the throat, yes?

Killer: That's right.

Inspector: Then you sliced into her abdomen, literally ripping her open. Is that correct?

Killer: Yeah. That sounds about right.

Inspector: After the ripping open of the unfortunate, you rummaged around and took a few organs. Yes?

Killer: No sir. I just made it look like I wanted to take something. It must have been the boys at the hospital who did it.

Inspector: Yes. I believe you. SERGEANT!

Sergeant: Yes sir?

Inspector: He says he only did the killing and ripping. the organs are the work of medical professionals.

Segeant: Come again?

Inspector: Get your sorry behind down to the hospital and make some arrests. This man is innocent of organ theft.

Sergeant: Right away sir.

Killer: can I leave then?

Inspector: Yes, but stay away from Zulus in the future.

Killer: I'll be sure to.

[Trevor Marriott]

Dorian you are correct in your assumptions.

As to the post of The Good Michael just goes to prove my beleif that if some people on here had brains they would be dangerous !!

[smezenen]

My previous post relates to the original theory that the killer removed the organs from the victims at the scene of the crime.

Of course one cannot also discount the fact that if other person or persons other than the killer had removed the organs then the abdominal cavities in both victims may have been opened up to a greater extent which would have then misled the doctors into suggesting that the killer removed the organs.

Primary evidence from the report of London police surgeon, Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown who examined Catherine Eddows at Mitre Square . "The body was on its back, the head turned to left shoulder. The arms by the side of the body as if they had fallen there. Both palms upwards, the fingers slightly bent. The left leg extended in a line with the body. The abdomen was exposed. Right leg bent at the thigh and knee. The throat cut across. The intestines were drawn out to a large extent and placed over the right shoulder -- they were smeared over with some feculent matter. A piece of about two feet was quite detached from the body and placed between the body and the left arm

Dr. George Bagster Phillips describes the body of Annie Chapman as he saw it at the crime scene as “horribly mutilated” with her throat deeply severed from the left side of the neck. The abdomen was laid open, the intestines lifted out and laid on the shoulder. The pelvis, uterus and appendages with upper part of the vagina had been removed.

The reports of the officials that originaly investigated these crimes and their testimony clearly shows that organs where removed by the killer at the scene of the crime.

I have searched for 2 days and see zero evidence that organs where removed by anyone but the killer. If such primary or even secondary evidence exists please give a reference. While the the Anatomy Act 1832 allows the use of bodies and body parts for reserach it is harldy evidence that medical students removed organs from these unfortunate women before their autopsies where performed.