Chances of Being Stopped On The Street

[c.d.]

When I went out for lunch today it was raining. Somehow, in attempting to open my umbrella, I cut my thumb on a little piece of metal. The result was blood on my hand. In looking at the blood, I was surprised at how noticeable it was. It dried very quickly and attempting to wipe it on my jeans did very little. It was clear that water was necessary to get rid of it. I started thinking that if I were Jack and had blood on my hands, I would want to get home as quickly as possible or be assured that there was a source of water nearby.

My question is how much did Jack have to fear that he could be stopped at random either by the police or vigilance committe members? Did they only stop suspicious persons or were the searches more random?

I suppose if he were overly paranoid about being stopped that he could get rid of his knife and the organs. Still there would be the question of blood on his hands or gloves.

Now I had always read that Jack had an advantage because it would not have been unusual for someone to have blood on them because of the all the slaughterhouses in the area. But would it have been sufficient to simply say I'm a slaughterman at Smith and Jones? If the person being stopped was at all suspicious, or maybe even if he were not, what is the likelihood that the policeman would have said let's go down to the station and wait while someone verifies your story? Would that have been at all practical or were there simply too many legitimate slaughtermen or others in a similar trade?

So the question is did Jack have to consider his proximity to a place where he could wash up and did he really have to think about being stopped on the street?

c.d.

[Mitch Rowe]

Im not so sure JTR had much blood on his hands at least concerning ACs murder. There wasnt any mention of any blood in the hall or on doors. There was a water faucet of some sort with a pan beneath filled with water that didnt appear to have been used to wash any blood. Its questionable as to whether JTR even knew about it though.

Somehow it seems JTR is at least wiping his hands on something and it appears that JTR is either swiping something from his victim or carrying something. Maybe he even carried a damp cloth with him?

[harry]

After Eddowes,the fear of being stopped,at least during the early morning hours,must have increased.In addition,just being seen and identified on the street ,in the near area of a crime,would have been of great concern.

[Malcolm X]

chances of being stopped on the street and arrested as a possible Jack the Ripper suspect is a very intersting topic indeed....

1 ... carrying a knife? self defence only
2.....hands and arms/ shirt sleeves covered in blood? only after the Kelly murder, but i bet he cleaned himself plus removed his jacket/ rolled up his sleeves
3.....hands only covered in blood?.... (the remaining murders) easy to wipe off.
4.... all his murders are close to a main road, so it's easy for him to melt away amongst other people, i expect he used the main roads all the time

[Malcolm X]

After Eddowes,the fear of being stopped,at least during the early morning hours,must have increased.In addition,just being seen and identified on the street ,in the near area of a crime,would have been of great concern.

not necessarily, suspect descriptions are so poor and up to 80% inaccurate...he would only be at risk if stopped by a policeman.

``he had a wideawake hat, broadshoulders, fair moustache, scuffily dressed and about 30``

now what bloody good is this description..it fits over 500 men

[smezenen]

In most of the murder site descriptions (even MJK) there isn’t much if any blood spatter mentioned. Most of what is mentioned is blood pooling. The police investigating these sites may not have reported on this very vigilantly, not knowing the importance of such differences in forensic science but we have to take the reports for what they are. With pooling it is much easier to avoid than spatter so I would think it very possible that Mr. Jack would not have much blood on his person at all. I would say his biggest concern would be his hands which are easily hidden in pockets or wiped clean with a damp rag.

[kensei]

Anyone who's read many of my posts will see me repeat myself quite a few times, but whenever this subject comes up I always say that I think the theories on how Jack might not have had that much blood on him sound good in theory but may not have worked so well in actual practice. I like to point out that actually reaching into a butchered body to extract organs is obviously going to get considerable blood on your hands, how easy it is in the heat of the moment to forget and scratch an itch with those hands (or other things like that) or to accidentally kneel down in the puddle while shifting position and get blood on your pants, and I like to make the analogy of changing a tire on a car. Do you think you could do that with clean hands and in clean clothes and not get dirty at all?

I think when it came to not being noticed on his way home, darkness and dark clothes were Jack's best friends. After managing to get away with Annie Chapman's murder, the lesson he probably took to heart was, "May I NEVER let the sun come up on me like that again!"

[smezenen]

Kensei,
I totaly agree with your analogy of the flat tire and also think he did have to be concerened with not being seen up close. Dark clothing moving in the shadows, hands in pockets, get out of the area fast and before the sun came up. Also after my last post i was looking at some pictures of liverpool slums of the same time period and one thing i noticed in alot of the photos is a drainage groove either running down the middle of the street or at the curb that may have contained enough water to quickly clean up a little. Maybe this was one of the things Jack would have considered when he chose his location.

[c.d.]

As I said in my initial post, the blood on my hand was quite prominent. It dried quickly and attempts to wipe it off didn't do much.

Do we know if men were stopped on the street at random?

And again, could Jack have gotten away with saying that he was a slughterman or in a similar trade?

c.d.

[Chava]

In the Eddowes killing, I think there was a public water fountain or something that looked like someone had washed some blood off.

[Sam Flynn]

In the Eddowes killing, I think there was a public water fountain or something that looked like someone had washed some blood off.

You might be thinking of Major Henry Smith's implausible story, as told in his memoirs, Chava. Smith claimed that Eddowes' murderer had washed his hands in a sink in a court off Dorset Street, he arriving in time to see the bloody water gurgle down the plug-hole, if you please. It was almost certainly the usual heap of self-aggrandising tosh one sees in some police and/or military autobiographies of that era.

[Lord-z]

Yes, dark clothes and stay out of the lights. That would probably be the only way to get away.

I dunno, could Jack have actually been a slaughterman? Dr. Phillips suggested that the murder might have at least a rudementary knowledge of anatomy. I know that a cow and a human body are very different, but it might at least give him a basic understanding of what he was going for.

[Mitch Rowe]

As I said in my initial post, the blood on my hand was quite prominent. It dried quickly and attempts to wipe it off didn't do much.

Do we know if men were stopped on the street at random?

And again, could Jack have gotten away with saying that he was a slughterman or in a similar trade?

c.d.

I dont think Police would have had the resources to stop everyone at random. Even though the streets were described as deserted Im sure there were more people on the streets than police could handle. The best way to stop people at random is to block off the area and check every single person. Now. I have been reminded of something. Ive read reports of Police checking all butchers shops. If thats true then thats a form of random checking.

I would suppose that certainly after Annies death no excuse would have sufficed if JTR was stopped on the street with blood on his hands. It may have helped him in court but as far as convincing a policeman to let him walk without confirming his alibi I highly doubt it.

[harry]

Malcom x,
You obviously misinterpreted what I wrote.For instance if any of the persons seen at or near the murder sights,and there were some,had been identified,the police would have taken a great deal of interest in that person,regardless of who made the identification.Wouldn't the ripper wish to avoid such a situation?,and wouldn't he take steps to that end?

[diana]

Lets not forget that on some of the nights it was raining. If you have uneven cobbled streets you're going to have water puddles.