Time Gentlemen Please

[Bulldog]

Does anyone know what time the pubs in the East End closed in Jack's day, and what time did they reopen? Did the pubs in the City keep the same hours?

Thanks.

Bulldog

[ken]

Its funny how questions come around, someone asked that very same question when first looked at this site years ago, anywho, i seem to remember reading that boozers kept their own hours in london until WW1 when, for obvious reasons it was thought best that people should be off the streets and in bed in order to get up early for the war effort. this carried on into WW2 where it was felt that people should be off the streets after dark in order not to be bombed. Many of the witness from 1888 talk about victim's leaving a pubs at different times of the morning so its safe to assume that you could get a drink from a few if not all of the east end pubs at anytime back then.

[RonnieKray]

I had read that a Police officer remarked to eddowes as he released her that it was too late for her to buy a drink. That might give some indication as to the time but I feel that the hours then are pretty much the same as now about 11.20pm. Though don't quote me as I am a non-drinker!

[John Bennett]

I got the impression that they shut when they wanted to, but 12.30am was the usual (though don't quote me on that one).

But pubs near Spitalfields Market were able to open really early in the morning for the market workers. That used to go on until the market closed in the early 1990s.

My college in Brighton was next to the market there - the pub next door would open at 5 in the morning. We always reckoned we'd give it a go, but never got round to it. Lightweights.

[The Grave Maurice]

Ken's right. Several people looked into this question a while ago. I won't swear to it either, but I think I remember someone establishing that it was a common practice for many pubs in the East End to close at 12:30. Opening was another matter. Pubs near the markets rolled back the shutters at about 6:00 a.m. to catch the early morning trade.

[The Grave Maurice]

Oops. Sorry, John, I didn't mean to step on your toes.

[John Bennett]

Hey GM

What spookily similar posts!!

[Bulldog]

Hi All,

Thanks a lot for your help with this one.

Bulldog

[perrymason]

I think there may well be a difference between alcohol serving hours of pubs, and those of "clubs". In Berner Street, we know that at least 28 people were singing upstairs in the International Mens Club when Liz is killed near 1am,...and I would imagine booze was still being served there.

Ive heard that there were some after hours drinking spots near Mitre Square also, that were open past 12:30am....Lawende and his cronies had just left a club at around 1:30am.

Practice and Law might be different in these cases, pubs traditionally in England and across the UK have closed around midnight or earlier for some time by 1888...but Im not sure that meant the law said no serving of alcohol past midnight.

Best regards.

[Sam Flynn]

Clubs were possibly subject to different licensing rules, Mike - they certainly do today, and have for as long as I can remember. Besides, I'm not sure whether Jewish social(ist) clubs, such as the two to which you refer, were "drinking holes" as such.

It's worth noting, in the general context of this thread, that the Temperance Movement had been pretty strong from the early 1880s onwards, and were active in the East End especially - in line with a general impetus for social reform among the poor. Ironically, one of the leading lights of the temperance lobby was Frederick Charrington, offspring of a famous brewing dynasty. Charrington's beer can still be bought today.

[Mort Belfry]

What about a fish and chip supper?

What's the latest Mary Kelly could have bought one?

[perrymason]

Clubs were possibly subject to different licensing rules, Mike - they certainly do today, and have for as long as I can remember. Besides, I'm not sure whether Jewish social(ist) clubs, such as the two to which you refer, were "drinking holes" as such.

It's worth noting, in the general context of this thread, that the Temperance Movement had been pretty strong from the early 1880s onwards, and were active in the East End especially - in line with a general impetus for social reform among the poor. Ironically, one of the leading lights of the temperance lobby was Frederick Charrington, offspring of a famous brewing dynasty. Charrington's beer can still be bought today.

Interesting you mention Charrington Sam, because I understand that his biographer states that his campaign against "immoral" brothels was responsible for some 200 bawdy house closures during the period of the Ripper saga....so he may have inadvertently put more potential Ripper victims on the street.

Righteous Behaviour is often far less than that....based on the results. We may have a "Righteous" Killer in fact. Is the heir to a fortune earned by making and selling alcohol really likely suggesting it should be banned?

Cheers Sam

[The Grave Maurice]

Mort,

You'd better hope that Sam Flynn has gone to bed early after over-indulging in chutney, or he will yell at you for drifting from the topic of this thread.

On the night of the Tabram murder, Elizabeth Mahoney fetched some supper for her husband from a chandler's shop in Thrawl Street at about 1:45 a.m. (Somewhere I read that what she brought back was fish and chips, but I'm not sure if that's true.) Anyway, it establishes that grub was available for purchase until quite late.

[John Bennett]

And Elizabeth Prater went for a tot of rum at the Ten Bells at 5.30am.

[perrymason]

And Elizabeth Prater went for a tot of rum at the Ten Bells at 5.30am.

And in one account, she knocked on Marys door first to see if she wanted to join her. If accurate, and she had just gone around to the window for a peek...we'd have some answers.

Cheers John